episode 12:
Your Thinking Mind Helps… It Just Can’t Do It All!
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Show Notes:
Episode 12:Your Thinking Mind Helps… It Just Can’t Do It All!
In this snowy walk-and-talk episode, I explore the often-overlooked role of the cognitive mind in somatic and nervous system healing. Even though so much of this work centers on body-based awareness and bottom-up change, I’ve been noticing how grounding, relieving, and even essential it can be to understand what’s happening in the nervous system.
I share what’s been coming up for me during Winter Healing Circle enrollment, why cognitive insight can soften self-judgment, and how the mind sometimes gets in the way—but can also become a powerful ally.
Throughout the episode, I weave in co-regulation practices, orienting cues, wintertime sensory delights, and reflections on the dance between thought, sensation, and presence as we walk through the snow together.
Timestamps:
00:00 — Welcome, winter arrives & walking in the snowy forest
03:00 — Introducing today’s theme: the role of the mind in somatic work
04:30 — Slower enrollment season & the realities people are facing
07:00 — Why cognitive understanding matters in nervous system healing
10:00 — Disconnection vs. overwhelm: two common body-awareness patterns
12:45 — Helicopter pause + sensory delights on the winter walk
14:00 — Orienting practice: noticing what delights you in your environment
18:00 — The human drive to understand: quizzes, astrology, systems & meaning-making
20:00 — How cognitive insight brings relief (“I make sense!”)
23:00 — The somatic foundation: understanding the nervous system’s logic
26:00 — The “second arrow” and how understanding reduces self-judgment
28:00 — How cognitive learning supports deeper body-based work
30:00 — Daily nervous system tending vs. deeper one-on-one work
33:00 — Why insight alone doesn’t create change (and what does)
36:00 — Activation cycles, completion, and the insights that follow the wave
39:00 — Lineages behind this work: Indigenous traditions + animal behavior
41:00 — The prefrontal cortex, why humans get stuck, and how to help the mind step aside
44:00 — Thought-channel overwhelm & shifting to sensation or imagery
47:00 — Closing reflections + an invitation to find delight where you are
49:00 — How to share your thoughts & support the show
Resources Mentioned
Submit your questions for the Q&A [here]
Photos and links from this episode: www.mindandmountain.co/podcast
snow slump!
hello
Transcript:
Sarah 0:12
You. Hello. We're back for CO regulation conversations, and I'm curious if you can already tell that something's different. Last time I recorded I was walking on crunchy fall leaves, and in the last week, we've had a huge change. Winter showed up here, and it snowed like eight inches overnight, and we got a whole new experience. Now, settled into winter, we've had a couple days of like, single digits, and, yeah, it's like, full on winter has arrived. People are out skiing, and the trees have this lovely snow on it that's made a bunch of the like, it's sticky enough snow that it's been like, draping over the branches in my favorite way, like, I love seeing the like, slumpy snow, shapes that snow can make when it's, oh, I'm just walking past one. Hold on. Let me. Let me take a picture and show you what I'm talking about. Okay, this tree has this amazing like dangle of snow, just like that's fallen off the branch, but it's still connected to itself. And I just think it's kind of amazing what snow can do sometimes. Ah, yeah, so we're in an adjustment period getting used to the putting on of the snow boots and all the layers and scraping off the car in the morning and all of the tasks of winter living, which I am sure I have it quite easy on there. I'm thinking about other places where I've lived, and I know some of you still are like also starting the wood stove and chopping wood and doing all the like, actual winter chores. So power to you, if that's what the season means to you. And may the strength, and, yeah, the strength that we've accumulated over the summer tied us over through this winter season.
Sarah 3:07
Today, today, I want to talk about the the way I've been thinking about the brain and the mind. And, I mean, so much of the work that we're doing here and inside of somatic experiencing and other nervous system work is body based. I mean, that's just there's just no question to me that that's where so much of the change that we're looking for is possible. And in that process, I've been realizing that there's a way that the like the mental space, the cognitive space, can get kind of pushed aside, or we maybe think that it's not as important or valuable. And so I have some things to say about this, and a lot of it's coming right now, but it's feeling really present for me, because of I've been in this process for the last little while of enrollment for the winter healing circle, which is my winter or somatic space, five month program, if you're listening to this in real time, we just started it yesterday, and I am keeping the doors open for another 10 days, basically until our second call. I. A group because, well, a couple of reasons. One is that the enrollments have been pretty slow this year. So, I mean, I've never had it feel quite like this, to be honest. I think, I mean, the reality is that we are in a very unique situation right now, what we're living through in the US with the amount of unstability, instability and uncertainty and financial stress, strain that people are experiencing, whether you're like directly affected as a federal worker these days, or a small business person who's affected by tariffs or immigration related. Gosh. I mean, I could just keep going with the laundry list there, couldn't I? So direct impacts for too many and indirect impacts to everyone, I would say, so, yeah, the I think that there's the reality of that has made it feel pretty Just like a pretty different process for coming into a like, a longer term commitment with a bigger financial to price tag on it. So so I would it would feel really good to have a couple more people in that group this year. So if that's you, just a little nudge, a nudge, on in, come reach out or, yeah, take a look at the information. Let me know if you have any questions that would help you feel into if it's something that you'd want to take on this year and jump into, I can really promise a you know, I've seen this time and time again from people who are in this experience that like the experience of being able to deep dive into your nervous system, the both on the cognitive side, which is what we're here to talk about today, but learning about like how this is how your body is operating, and why and why it all makes sense, and learning to interpret the messages that you're getting from your body and understand what they mean And what they indicate about the nervous system state that you're in. All of that helps so much in demystifying the experience that you're having and taking you out of the like frustration about why, why is this? Why am I like this? That's a that's a phrase that my that I have in the past, said to myself a lot. So the experience of like, getting to know, like, really deeply understanding the nervous system and why it does what it does can really help soften that experience. And then, so that's that is the cognitive learning aspect that we have inside of that space. And then the group and one on one practice spaces are aware, you get to, like, drop into the body and be in practice of, like, exploring the different types of strategies and self knowledge and presence with yourself that can help these patterns that the Nervous System has developed get to know themselves, maybe complete so that something else is possible, or just open up the doorway toward a shift. So, yeah, it's pretty awesome, and I have space. If you want to join us, please reach out. It's the primary way to work with me these days, if you want to do some one on one, work in this area, supported by these other layers of the of the group experience and the learning modules. So yeah, so that's like the background of where my head has been in the last couple of weeks, especially, and in being like deeply steeped in this space, I've been realizing how, you know, we have the we. Have the model in our culture about therapy, and often people reach out to me for one on one therapy sessions, somatic therapy work and and I have, I do have a private practice where I do some, have some space for those types of sessions. I find them especially useful for when there's like a an acute situation, like something specific that happened that like we realize that the body needs help in renegotiating. But one of the reasons why I like developed a winter healing circle the way I did is that I come, have come to find that this way of working is so it's so different from what we have been taught inside of Western culture, the elevation of the mind, the thinking, the priority we put on cognitive, knowledge and understanding and insight. You know, there's just that's just steeped in so many in so many different areas. I've seen that that's on the it's on the list of the characteristics of white supremacy that that elevation of the written word and of the cognitive mind is prioritized over traditional knowledge and body based knowledge. So there's just like so many different ways that that is prioritized inside of our culture. And you know, we may not even know all of the different ways we've been told that are the way that we feel like we can get everything done that we need to get done through thinking and this way of working flips that and brings us back into getting to know what our what the rest of us has to say, what the body has to Say, and why that matters, and learning how to support the body as it moves through the experiences that it's living that we've been mostly separated from
Sarah 12:56
or overwhelmed by. Because I find that like people when they start into this work, often they like, either have very little connection to their body and maybe don't have a lot of sensation there. And honestly, when that happens, it's usually for really good reason. Often there's like a pain, like chronic pain, or just a lot of discomfort or anxiety, like lots of activation in the body that that it like when we don't know how to be in contact with that in a way that's titrated and well supported. It feels overwhelming to be with it, so that we just learn to just not just live in the mind and and then also, there's this other pattern that we, sometimes people have. This is the side of the continuum that I was on where you get information from your body, but you get a lot of information, and so much that it's that it is like a lot overwhelming at times, and often that information is discomfort, and, you know, we call it like trauma vortex. It's stress signals, it's the places that hurt and the places that are flagging that something's wrong. So both of those extremes are extremes and uncomfortable in their own way, and they have some consequences that maybe you end up feeling like that chronic disconnection or the overwhelm, yeah, so for you know, good reason we have maybe learned to just not. Like be super in touch with the messages that we get from the body. Hold on. This a really loud helicopter flying. Okay, I'm back. Helicopter is gone. And while I pause, I was just noticing all of this snow and the slumps, they're just everywhere, taking some more pictures to add to the podcast page. If you're curious to see what I am seeing and imagine that we were out together, walking through this super pretty winter forest. We've been just so lucky not to have a ton of wind. So the snow is just like in a really beautiful way, just sitting on the branches, kind of out of a postcard. Yeah, and the orienting that I'm doing here as I notice how beautiful these trees are with all of their snow on it, maybe there's a version of that that you are also able to do right now, even if you're indoors, you can play with this through noticing, just noticing your environment, just like looking around and seeing if there's anything that delights you about where you find yourself sometimes, when we're looking around, we can be in that like problem aware mode, where it's like, what are the things that need to change about this area. What don't I like that happens so often, especially around the house, so it can take some like real intentionality to wrangle the attention toward the things that are fun about it, the delights. And I hope that you hearing the enthusiasm in my voice about what I'm seeing can help your nervous system also shift over into that mode of, like, looking for something weird and wonderful about where you find yourself, and it doesn't really have to be anything spectacular. That's like one of the magic tricks about this work. It like when we are like outside in a spectacular place, this process probably happens organically, which is great. I mean, that's why we love going to beautiful places and taking in that environment, being outside this, these processes happen naturally in those kind of environments. And, you know, I I'm right now. I'm like, in my neighborhood, in the green space, which I'm super lucky to live by but like, I'm not off in the remote mountains anywhere. There are a lot of Delights available pretty close to home. So we start to learn that and recognize that and let them land in the body in a way that is nourishing and changes the nervous system state enough that you can have, like, a profound shift in how you're feeling. And then to take it to the next level, bring that the same skill set into daily life, regular, normal routines, where we have to maybe, like, bring the practices in a little bit more intentionally, because we're maybe not like looking around at the trees and the beauty and the snow and whatever it is, but the same mechanism is available to look around as if You, like, just showed up here for the first time, like you're an alien to this planet, and you're like, What is this place? Where am I and what do I notice about it? Yeah, okay, so, um. So hopefully there's something that you can notice that might have shifted as we played around with that a little bit, maybe just a little bit of settling, deactivation, deeper breaths, like a slower pace in your mind, all these little clues that maybe were coming out of a activated state and into something a little bit different. And then I'm going to bump back to this conversation about the role that the mind has here for us, because I really, I want to like, value the place for cognitive learning and understanding, especially about what's happening inside your nervous system, in your body. I want it to make sense as much as it can for you. And the reason I mean, I think us as humans, I think we have a strong drive within us to to understand. And that might not all be conditioning. You know, there's that, the way that's been elevated inside of these systems of culture that we live inside of. And then, I mean, my hunch is that there, there's, like, a way that there's some of that that's inherent in being human, and the idea that, if you that it can like it can feel settling and grounding and supportive to feel like you. You get it like you understand what's happening. I mean, our minds are so good at that, and evolved for that, for good reason. I can't stop stopping to take pictures of these snow slumps. There's another one. Okay, this podcast page is going to be loaded with these beautiful, draping snow features. I hope you like it. Yeah, I just, you know, I'm thinking about, if you're somebody who nerds out on like, maybe it's neuroscience, or maybe it's the like, all of the spiritual systems, like, maybe it's astrology or human design, or
Sarah 22:49
Myers Briggs or Enneagram, all of these different maybe when you were young, I grew up with, like, Teen Magazine, and you were taking all the quizzes about who like to figure out who you are, like all of those different systems that we have are ways of helping us make sense of like, what is going on with me and why. And tell me if this feels true for you. But my, my felt sense of this is that when we get like an answer, like we get our quiz results back and they feel accurate, or we get like an astrology reading and we're like, Oh yeah, that that makes sense, that there's a there's like a relief that happens inside of the inside of the body, in the nervous system, that it's like, okay, all right, I make sense. Like, this is, this feels I'm okay. I'm like, I'm not so lost inside of my experience. I I'm like, There's a settling feeling of like, I it makes sense. I'm okay. That can happen when we have accessed like through whatever channel is your channel, but access this sense of like, what is it? It's like a clear picture of what might be going on for you. So I have been super into all those systems throughout my whole life. Had a very strong drive toward figuring myself out and and so I think that's some of I mean, I've basically been on this journey through all different therapy modalities and personal growth processes to make sense of what. Is like who I am, and why am I like this? And what I have found here now, landing in the somatic world, is that understanding like that for me now, it's like the the foundation of everything is the way that the nervous system is working, like the nervous system is running these programs inside of our bodies, and it's shaping the way we experience our life every day. So a foundational understanding of the nervous system and how and why it does what it does, helps us come into trust with the body and see that like there's a reason for all of this, and it's it's happening because the body is operating through intelligence based on its past experience. And of course, it's doing that that's like, makes perfect sense. And I find that with that, that first layer of cognitive understanding of like, okay, this is I see what's happening here, and I see why, and it makes sense that seems like it allows for a sense Of like, relief and space inside of someone's experience. And that's huge. It's so big. I mean, I know in I think it's Buddhist tradition where this concept comes from, the concept of the second arrow, that meaning that you like the first arrow is the experience that you're having in life, maybe it's an uncomfortable one, and then the second arrow is the judgment that you have about the experience, or the frustration that you have about the experience, and when we're able to cognitively understand the processes that we're experiencing, and it frees us up from that second arrow, because you come into this relationship of like, okay, I see what my body is doing and why, and then that frees up the need to judge it. There might still be frustration with it, about like, why am I still doing this? Or why is it still like this? But it can really help kind of crack open that space. So even if there is impatience and desire for change to happen at a faster rate, there is often a little bit of like, okay, okay, I get it. I see why you're doing this. And sometimes that's just enough to, like, help us get in there and soften the dynamics a little bit. So, so basically, all this is to say that it's really helpful and important to have a cognitive understanding about what's going on in your nervous system. And that space I've this is this is like how we deliver it inside of winter healing circle is that there's a learning module each month to get that foundational knowledge across, and then space inside the group time to be in discussion about it, because I present things in one way, and then it's so cool to see how like different people interpret it through their own personal experience. And that can like really bring a like so much more depth to the conversation when we share and learn about it in a group space, all of that's helping that second arrow soften and the it's kind of, it's another way, I think of it is, it's that it seems to function as like a way of helping the cognitive mind let go of some of its efforting, too, and some of the control that it might be used to having over the body, like when the cognitive mind can, like, grasp onto the situation and the experience that The body's having and see, see how that's playing out then that that often can help us actually, like, move a little bit more out of the Raine, and open up the possibility of listening more deeply to the body. And then, and then the Embo. Bodyment work, the somatic work, the space where we get to then deepen this relationship with the nervous system and the somatics of that. Then that has space to happen. And, you know, I'm like, all about the value of the somatic work and the body based bottom up shifting. I think that's where change actually happens. So much of like the mind oriented change work is directed at, like, trying to talk the body into doing something different. And maybe there's insight around, like, why we are, how we are, but if insight solved things, we would, you know, we'd be there already, right? Like we so much of our the people in this community like we, we know like we have cognition. We have insight into a lot of things about ourselves. And oh, isn't it the rub that, like you might understand why, but it's not shifting. That that's because the body is still having its experience and hasn't yet been able to discharge whatever stored incomplete cycles that it's running or come into relationship with safety in a way that it that it allows it to feel safe enough to consider some doing something differently. So like, you know, I'm like, never going to deprioritize that aspect of it, the body based work is, in my mind, it's the heart of this. And a lot of that can happen in these like daily rituals of practicing together, like we're doing here as we walk, or as you listen to me walk, and we connect with our bodies and also connect with the environment that we're in. Pay attention to the sensations of the body. Maybe you're hearing the sounds of my winter gear, and you're just like, we've got all these
Sarah 32:49
sensory cues available to help cue the body into recognizing the safety of the moment that you find yourself in right now. So there's a, there's like a daily practice aspect of that. I mean, I'm, I'm essentially these days after having been in practice of this a long time, it's just kind of always tending to my nervous system through feeling sensations that are pleasurable whenever I can find them, kind of like having a having, like, an eye out for those, oh, anything feels good. I'm gonna, like, catch it and notice it and enjoy it. Same with, like, sensory delights through the eyes or the sounds or tastes, kind of like always trying to keep myself oriented in time and space, resourced through checking in with pleasure and CO regulated through recognizing all of the different ways that I'm supported. It's like a regular practice, and less of a like, quote, unquote practice, but more of just, like a way of being so I think that, you know, there's like, this daily life way we tend to that, and then there's the deeper work of tracking the nervous system and helping support it in completing incomplete cycles and getting to know its subtleties that happens inside of session work. And so, you know, there's, there's these different layers that that help, like the regular tending to things helps the capacity stay broadened out as as spacious as it, as the body feels available into them in the moment and then the deeper work, like the one on ones seem. Like they are the place where the like, the set point for your system might be able to shift around, like, maybe move from like, a set point that's fairly activated to one that is a little bit more settled, or a set points that's kind of Freezy to something that's like more thought out. I But yeah, the the the position I'm the like piece of this that I'm bringing forth today is that I really do think that there is an important role for the cognitive mind in understanding the way this all works, and that really might shift the experience that you have of it, because in it maybe takes away judgment. I've also seen it take away or decrease the levels of fear that the body might be experiencing. It's like, what is this? Ah, it's scary, if you can, like, get into the the understanding of why it might be like this, that can function as a way of decreasing some of that fear response, and then that might allow the experience to be something that your body is able to be more present with, which is where we see the shifting come from the ability to be present with the sensations, with the experience that the body is having as it moves through cycles. Yeah, and then I want to do an episode on this entirely. But then, then often, as a cycle moves through, it's like a wave pattern. I'm doing this with my hand. Maybe you can imagine, but like an activation cycle rises in response to something stressful or exciting. You know, something activation is neutral, so it might be something stressful, or it might be something fun, as the activation rises and then when it's supported and the nervous system containers steady enough to support that to leave room for that wave to rise and then crest and then come back down deactivate on the backside. It's very cool, but there is often insight, the like another layer of cognitive I awareness, or, like, breakthrough moments, or like, oh, that's that. Like, things connect up, insight comes on after the wave. So there's, there's there's like, it's almost like the the somatic body based experience, where we're trying to just, like, be with the body and and just kind of be in the sensational experience of being human. But that work, it's almost like it's book ended by the space. For them, for the mental process. At the beginning, it's maybe the understanding of like, why this might be the way we are, and at the end, might be the insight into, like, some new layer of something that can feel really exciting, since there's maybe like this, like treasure of insight or reward after the wave, which we can't rush. But that often happens, and it's really cool. Okay, let me see if there's anything more I want to share on this. Think we're moving toward a close here. You
Sarah 39:20
I yeah, I guess I'll say, you know, so much of this work, well, it comes from a few different places, because I for sure know that there's a lot of like, nature based, earth based, indigenous traditions that have a lot of these methods woven into their way of life, kind of more intact cultures than the like Western whites of. Premises, capitalist, patriarchal world that we find ourselves in now, most of us, so there's for sure a place that this is like. This has a lineage of indigenous tradition behind it. Also the somatic experiencing lens on this comes a lot from the animal behavior side of things, and specifically watching like animals in the wild navigate through stress cycles and life or death situations without the trauma that we tend to experience as humans. And you know, the theory there is that the differentiation between the animals and their nervous systems that can move through these cycles pretty smoothly and us humans is that we have this big old prefrontal cortex, which is where all of the like thinking and mental processing and our strategizing, all that stuff happens. So the the idea good just got past my biker, the idea here would be that that prefrontal cortex might be interrupting some of those cycles from moving through because we do have this animal body that has this intelligence inside of it, and that's a lot of what this work is trying to get us back to. It's like helping the body remember what it knows about moving through stress cycles and completing them. And we have to kind of get the the cognitive mind, that prefrontal cortex, to step aside in order to allow those processes to happen. So, yeah, that's like this, this dance that we're playing, like, what's the role for the cognitive mind, and how can we give it everything it needs to feel safe enough to allow for more of these primal animal body processes to happen, and that's essentially one of the places where I find this, like initial layer of cognitive work around understanding what's going on in your nervous system has, like, a really important role to play. So let's not you know, often if you're like having feeling like you're like frustrated with your thinking or feeling like trying to control your thoughts isn't working very well. Let's see if we can use the cognitive mind to help get a grasp on understanding why the nervous system is what it is, and then get into the body and support the nervous system, the body in shifting states when we're in a different, different physical nervous system state, the thinking mind operates differently. So we don't have to be like, working to manage thoughts, or to, like, redirect thoughts, or not get trapped in thoughts like it's, in fact, it's a it's a shift. It's like one of the one of the strategies is to shift channels. If you're somebody who has a really strong thought cycling pattern, rumination kind of thing, then you might benefit from the practice of recognizing when you're in the thought channel. This is a language that maybe comes from a different strategy that I haven't touched on here yet, but the thought channel is one of the channels of experience, and we can shift from we can change the channel. So you might shift into just noticing the sensations of your body, or shift your awareness out into the world and notice images. Or, you know, just like get get your attention into a different space. Make a note to talk about that in a different podcast, because that's a whole there's a whole strategy around that that would be great to spend some time on. But for now, I feel like this conversation around finding value in our mind and the mental aspect of this work feels pretty complete, so thank you for being here. I hope you find something to delight your senses with. Maybe right now, as we're closing, see if there's anything. Sometimes they're really random, and sometimes it's like very small little things that can catch the animal body's attention and open up the potential for a little bit of a different experience inside the body. So see if you can see, find anything like that right now as we're closing and we'll land with the impact of that on the body, which for me right now as I'm working my way back to my house, and I'm noticing these little frost features on some of the trees that are here, noticing some deeper breaths and a softness that's here in my system As I've enjoyed sharing these thoughts with you and going on a walk together. Thanks for being here. Take really good care of yourself and each other. Leave me a comment if you're listening on Spotify, there's a nice comment section. The other platforms might have them as well. It's been really fun to see your yeah, see your thoughts and read what how this is landing for different folks. So I always appreciate that, of course, always also appreciate ratings and reviews and sharing episodes with your friends. It all really helps to share and build out this platform, and it also really helps me connect with you and your experience. So thanks for being here, and I'll see you next time you.
