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Show Notes

In this episode, I’m recording from Villa de Leyva, Colombia — sitting beside a waterfall in the Andes as I reflect on internal safety as an antidote to perfectionism. What began years ago as a drive to perform, achieve, and avoid mistakes has slowly transformed through somatic work, entrepreneurship, and lived experience into something much softer: a growing capacity to feel safe even when I’m imperfect.

I share stories from my early twenties living in Colombia, where my perfectionism showed up through language — studying hard, avoiding mistakes, and feeling intense shame when I got something wrong. Returning now, decades later, I notice how different it feels to speak imperfect Spanish from a body that no longer equates mistakes with danger. Through the lens of nervous system work, I explore how perfectionism often develops as a strategy to manage activation and vulnerability — and how building internal safety can begin to uncouple “mistake” from “shame.”

This episode is an invitation to gently untangle the places where your body may still believe that being perfect is what keeps you safe. Together, we explore how orienting to support, practicing co-regulation, and accumulating small moments of safety can soften protective patterns over time — allowing more freedom, play, and growth in the process.

Timestamps
00:00 — Recording from Colombia & orienting to place
03:00 — Returning to a formative chapter of life
06:30 — A guided pause: noticing support and safety cues
09:30 — Perfectionism as a nervous system strategy
13:30 — Early achievement, shame & language learning
17:00 — Entrepreneurship, grad school & breaking perfectionism
21:00 — Mistakes as information rather than identity
23:30 — Building internal safety through somatic practice
26:00 — How safety changes the experience of imperfection
28:30 — Untangling over-couplings between mistakes & shame
30:00 — Closing reflections from the waterfall

Submit your questions for the Q&A [here]

Photos and links from this episode: www.mindandmountain.co/podcast 

Transcript

Sarah 0:03
Sarah, hello, coregulation, conversations, folks. Sarah, here I am recording this episode today from Villa de Leyva, Colombia. This little mountain town in the Andes, up high in the mountains. And right at this moment, you find me sitting at this beautiful place in the forest, I'm by a little waterfall, which I hope you can hear, and there's a little bit of breeze in the trees, and the sun is out, But I'm sitting in the shade here on a rock, and just really, really, really enjoying this beautiful location from which to talk to you a little bit. Here I am in Colombia on this trip as part of my work to support the first ever Colombian cohort of somatic experiencing students that my friend Laura Botero organized as A dream that she has been wanting to make happen here in her home country for a long time. Laura and I met when I was a student in the somatic experiencing training myself, and she was one of the assistants in that training, and now she's organizing this Colombian cohort, and I'm here as an assistant, supporting the students and also the faculty that is teaching the material. And it's been just such a joy. This training is a three year process. And so two separate modules each year in the way they do it here in Colombia. And so this is, this is now year three, so five of six trips down here with this group of people. And just really fun to have been developing a deeper relationship with this place and with the people who are a part of this training group, the community that's been building here across the last couple years. And for me, it's also really fun because of the i because of the way I spent. I spent a handful of years here in my 20s in Bogota, in the capital city. It's about a four hour drive from this town, and those were some really formative years for me. They were these years right after college, when I was trying to figure out what I was doing with my life and who I was as a young adult, and the Colombian people and culture here were very impactful for me in that time, lots of lessons about about community and joy and being like what belonging means, especially as someone who was coming In to the Colombian culture from from outside, and felt just like super welcomed and cared for, and also had a lot to learn about what it meant to be both like a foreigner being a part of a different culture, and also just as like a young adult operating in a in a new place, in a big city. I never really lived in a big city before, and, yeah, it's really fun time. It's a great, a great era in my life. I fell in love. I have a really like, Great time connecting. I was playing rugby down here and connecting with the rugby team. And after as that, when that era ended and I made the decision to move back to Alaska, I just kind of like dropped the my effort to be. Become fluent at Spanish and figure out how to operate inside of Latin American culture and and just like kind of went all in on Alaska life, which is basically probably how most of you know me who are listening here the outdoor recreation in Alaska, figuring out how to learning how to ski and do long backpacking trips and stuff, and just doubled down on Alaska life and and kind of left this part of myself behind. And so this, when I met Laura, it felt kind of like something I'd been dreaming of really, or like wanting to happen find a way to to bring this part of myself back to life and and back into relationship in maybe less of an extreme way. You know, now I'm I still have my Alaska life going, and it's been fun to integrate this part of myself that really loves Latin America and enjoys the challenge of bringing my Spanish again, like digging it out of the back corners of my Raine and and trying to come back into the ability to communicate in that way. And so, yeah, it's been a really special thing over the last few years, and we have one more module after this one, and then this group will graduate, and that will be really special to celebrate with them. So that's the orientation to where you find me right now, and I wonder if we might just spend a moment just together, connecting with where you find yourself right now,

Sarah 6:57
see if there are any sounds that you can hear that help your body recognize where it is right now, you might have a look around and give your senses an opportunity to really recognize all of the different nuances of where you are located in this moment in time and space,

Sarah 7:41
and then maybe here you also just taking a few moments to let your body and your energy settle into the place where you find yourself, I'm seated here on a rock, so just feeling the places where body connects with the support that's under or behind or around you in any way, so maybe through your feet or through your Seat,

Sarah 8:19
noticing the places where your body is supported.

Sarah 8:33
And see if there's a way that the body, when it's in relationship to that support, if anything shifts inside, you see if you can allow that to happen in a kind of an organic way, like a spontaneous way, so different than telling the body it can relax, just letting the attention land on the places where the body is actually, literally supported, and seeing if in noticing that, if anything shifts,

Sarah 9:31
I wanted to talk a little bit Today about what I'm thinking about as anecdotes to perfectionism. There's a lot to say here, and this might be multiple episodes, but today I wanted to share some reflections I've been having on the way that this work that we do here and. Side of nervous system work and somatics to help the body establish an internal sense of safety can be one of the things that helps us shift out of the sense of needing to be perfect in order to feel safe because we might, you know, like, I think of perfectionism and kind of all these other strategies that we come up with, again, like, not, not a on the mental level, but the body comes up with as strategies for managing activation In the body that we don't know what to do with. And another way of saying that is the sensations, or the experience of feeling less safe or more vulnerable. And often, we learn when we're young that we, if we like, do everything really well, if we perform at a high level or get good grades, or, you know, impress people with our skills, or, you know, being good at stuff, then we receive care or attention, positive attention or respect, or we avoid getting in trouble or feeling shame or disconnection From the people that we are close to. So these patterns develop out of a like a impulse in the body to try to feel better inside of our relationships with others, initially, and then we might internalize them and take them on ourselves, like hold ourselves to that high standard in order to catch any sort of like threat pattern early and so but like those internal voices, those internal protective patterns around keeping that high standard might turn They might come feel like they come from inside, as they've moved from something we learned inside of our external out, like family or school or external world, and then taken them in. So I myself have been working on this for quite some time, because I had quite strong, like, kind of typical, eldest daughter, high performer. I was the valedictorian in my high school, and, like, in the Gifted and Talented program. And like, kind of told from an early age that there was, like, this was one of the things I was valued for doing, doing well academically and intellectually and also athletically. And, you know, that paid off. I got, like, lots of accolades for that, and scholarships and things. You know, there's, like a lot of inside our systems that reinforce those patterns. And here in Colombia, now as a 43 year old versus when I was here as a 22 year old, that perfectionist pattern was running really strongly when I was in my 20s. And one of the ways it showed up was that I would really I worked so hard to get really good at Spanish. I and I remember quite vividly that, like, anytime I would make a mistake in Spanish, I would have a huge shame response. I have, like, a very vivid memory of being with some people at a rugby tournament, and we were in an elevator at the hotel we were staying at, and I, like, conjugated one of the verbs wrong. And I must have been in like, a funny way, like, what I ended up saying made them laugh. And I just, I remember just being like, oh my gosh, so embarrassed. I, like, couldn't make eye contact. I was so ashamed. And all I had done was, like, made a mistake in my the way I said a word, you know, but in the way that felt in my body at the time with those really strong perfectionist standards, it was, it felt like a really big deal and and, you know, the one of the impacts of that pattern running so strongly was that I got super good at spam. Ish, because I could not deal with making mistakes. So I just, like studied really hard. But the other thing I would do was, was that I would hold myself back. I would hold back my words and my what I wanted to say, unless I was and not say it, unless I was sure I could say it right, so that I wouldn't deal with that shame response if I made a mistake. So you know, there's also the impact of not being able to express myself in a free way, because I was controlling it really, like, working pretty hard to control my language and avoid mistakes. And I, I, honestly, I kind of wonder if I would have gotten even better at Spanish, if I had, just like, gotten out there and just like, let it flow, you know, like had more gotten more reps in of saying things, sometimes well and sometimes not, and just like bumbling along, making my way, but inside of the way my nervous system felt at that time. It it felt like the i i had over coupled the experience of safety, with not making mistakes or being perfect, perfectionism equals safety, you know, and it doesn't, but that's how it felt in my body for a long time. And so here I am again now, 20 years later. And one of the things that has been so interesting to observe with myself, and honestly really fun, as far as like a marker of progress inside of this healing journey that I've been on and the work that I've been doing to help improve my mental health and sense of well being and ability to just like, be more myself and be more free, these are like the bigger goals that I have inside of the somatic work that I do in my own personal process. I'm like, I basically dropped Spanish for these 15 or 20 years in between, when I left Colombia for the last time in my 20s, and then coming back two and a half years ago, when this cohort started, and I noticed right away that, like there was no way I was going to be able to sustain that high level of Spanish that I had had in my 20s, but thank God I had Been working on other things, like helping my body feel safe when I made mistakes. So I basically reoriented my whole relationship with mistakes in in these last 20 years, and I mean through various things, one part of it was grad school, because grad school, doing grad school and having a full time job, like, maybe some of you have done this, like, there's just too much to do you, like, it was impossible to maintain that, like, extremely high standard that I had. So grad school kind of broke my perfectionism, because it was impossible to sustain, and I still graduated with high grades and like, you know, good learning along the way, and then this somatic work that I've been doing. And though, though the the way that feels like that has been supportive of this process is that it's helped to uncouple this sense of like perfection, like not making mistakes equals being safe. Or the other way to say that would be the opposite side of the coin, which is like a mistake means shame. Like mistake, like if i Something goes wrong or I make a mistake, it's like instant shame response, or like very strong embarrassment.

Sarah 19:29
You know that I'm the other thing that also has helped with this, honestly, has been stepping into entrepreneurial life and building a business, because it's so much of inside of building a small business from scratch is having to just like, iterate and try things and, I mean, you just really don't know how things are going to go until you put them out there. And also, similar to grad school, there's so much to do that there's just kind of no way to do it. Perfectly all the time. Typos happen, and some offers land and others don't, and sometimes you describe things in a way that makes sense to people, and sometimes you have to keep trying, and like finding new language to help it things make sense to people, and it's just very iterative. So yeah, thanks to entrepreneurship for being like one of my biggest growth what growth areas like it's pushed me significantly the work of running a small business in this way i Yeah, and thank goodness for these somatic skills and the work that I've been doing along the way to help my body uncouple that that thing it had mistakes equals shame like that was a very uncomfortable dynamic to be in because, you know, if we're being honest and we're if we're if we're risking, if we're trying things and doing things that are challenging, doing things that push our push our limits and our capacity, which is how we grow, you know, we we can't do that if we're Always if we, if we can't, also be okay with sometimes it not working out. I mean, those years when I was living here and and holding myself back so that when I spoke, I I didn't make a mistake and that, and if I was going to make a mistake, potentially, I just wouldn't say anything that. Like, that's a way to not grow that muscle to not try unless I was sure it was going to work out. That's like very, very conservative way of of living life. And it does seem like it, it doesn't allow for as as, like, fast of a growth process when we're crushed by the mistakes that happen. I mean, again, like, inside of entrepreneurial shit, like there's, there are mistakes that happen, and there are things that you offer that don't, that don't work out and like one of the biggest strengths that you need inside of entrepreneurial work is the ability to make mistakes and keep rolling and see them and understand them as information and as an opportunity to learn, rather than a problem or an indicator about who you are. So, so this piece about helping untangle those mistakes and what what it means about me and the body response that would happen when I made a mistake, that that's what I'm talking about in calling here this, like, internal sense of safety. As the body starts to feel more safe, like like it can if you can access things like the experience of feeling resourced in the present moment by the tools of orienting, connecting with support and resources, Connecting with other people through co regulation or nature or pets, you know, the many different ways we've been playing with CO regulation here. These are all things that help the body recognize safety cues and hold them in kind of center in its awareness. I mean, when we're beginning to learn this, we have to kind of work at it consciously, to help the body be like, Look you're safe. Look like really intentionally show it safety cues. And then over time, that becomes practiced enough that the body just picks those up on its own, maybe even without the like conscious effort of practicing it. Though, you know, I am doing it consciously very often as well, and then as that sense of internal safety grows. The things that maybe felt like they were threats externally, like, oh, I if I do something wrong, or like, Oh, if somebody's mad at me, if my body has more of a sense that that it's safe. And that isn't really up for debate, because I'm, I'm like, looking around and knowing safety as a practice kind of all the time, safe enough, then these, these things can happen in the external world, and they're not as threatening. They don't read as as as big of a deal as they used to. There may be like, a little bit cringey or like, there's like an ace activation wave that might still happen. But also my body now is like, become familiar with the process of an activation wave that it doesn't necessarily like, we've mapped that out, and I've, like, ridden enough of these waves in a very present way, so it's like, they're not as frightening when they happen. It's like, oh gosh, that's that was a mistake. Or, like, that didn't go how I set when it are like, oh, gosh, that was not the word I meant to say. But if it's if from a place where, like, the body is safe, that can actually be kind of fun. The same situation, you know, when I'm if we're feeling unsafe, reads as a threat in the nervous system, but if the body's feeling safe, it might read as like silly or playful or like a learning opportunity. All that to say it's completely changed. My experience of being here in Colombia and my Spanish is significantly worse than it was in my 20s. Though I am working at it again, and it's been really fun to bring it back around and notice my ability to communicate improve over the last couple years again, but my experience of it has completely changed, because I feel so much more relaxed inside of these attempts to communicate. And instead of reading like threat when I make a mistake, I can accurately orient to people's facial expressions and body languages. And instead of like perceiving it as like they think they like they're they're mad at me, or like they're frustrated, or they're, you know, annoyed, or like something's wrong here I can, sort of, I can see that actually, there's a lot of openness and connection And patience here for my imperfect ability to use language, not all the time, you know, but, but because, you know, some people don't want to deal with it, and that can actually also be fine. There's like, something that happens when the nervous system is more settled and anchored into the internal sense of safety that allows me to more accurately perceive what's happening in the people that I'm relating with, and notice when people aren't here for it and When they are, and to let that be okay,

Sarah 28:25
and then to let the process be a little bit messy and and have that not be a problem as well. So if this is something you are also untangling, I would invite you to see what of the practices or strategies that we play with here, or maybe you have come across In other areas of your life help your body feel safer, and we can let this be a process. You know? It doesn't have to be like, and it sure wasn't for me, like, Oh, I did a practice, and now I my body knows it's safe. It's more like slow and steady accumulation of little safe moments over time that the body comes into relationship with and comes into trust with. And we can know that as that happens, those over couplings between things that felt threatening and land in the body really intensely, as the body starts to anchor into safety, at internal safety as its as its kind of baseline state that those over couplings get a little bit softer and easier to untangle, and they might also need some like individual work to help complete the impulse or the protective response that. It's inside of that over coupling, but the foundation work is something you can do here, and we can do together in this format of of coming into relationship with safety cues and resources and knowing that the safer that the body feels, the easier these protective patterns will be, to release, to soften, to potentially take a different shape, and then the impact of that is profound. Okay, I'm going to go back to enjoying this really beautiful spot. Thanks for being here, and I'll talk to you next time you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai