Coregulation Meets Current Events

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Show Notes:

Episode 6: Coregulation Meets Current Events

For the first time on the podcast, Sarah is joined by her friend and coworker, Rainey Fryberger, to explore a big question: How do we stay engaged with the news without becoming overwhelmed?

Together, they talk about why it’s natural to feel activated by current events, how stress responses work in the body, and simple nervous system skills—like orienting, resourcing, and “bringing on arms and legs”—that can help us stay grounded. They also share strategies for co-regulation, setting media boundaries, and channeling activation into meaningful action.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 Welcome & introducing Raine
• 07:00 Grounding practices before hard topics
• 16:00 The “animal body” & survival strategies
• 22:00 Brain science: stress and the angular cingulate
• 27:00 Why activation isn’t a problem
• 35:00 Orienting and resourcing with the news
• 40:00 Co-regulation & looking for helpers
• 52:00 Healthy outlets for fight/flight/freeze
• 59:00 Using voice & small actions
• 1:04:00 Social media boundaries
• 1:07:00 Closing reflections
 

Resources:

• Submit your questions for the Q&A segment here.

• Photos and links from this episode: www.mindandmountain.co/podcast

Transcript:

Sarah 0:02
Raine, Okay, Hi everyone, welcome back. This is our next co regulation conversation, and for the first time, here I'm not alone. I have my friend and co worker, Raine Fryberger, here with me.

Raine Fryberger 0:17
Hi, Raine. Hi everyone. Happy to be here.

Sarah 0:22
I'm so excited to have you. I you know, I invited you in here at kind of the last minute today, as I was making time to record this podcast because of the topic that we're going to get into today, which came from the Q A box that I put up on Instagram when I was first launching this project, one of my friends, Mel, from this podcast class that helped me get this project off the ground. She's from Canada, and she put in the Q and A box, OMG, just the news from your country. And I was like, Yeah, okay, great question. Definitely need to talk to that. Talk about that. How are we using nervous system skills to help navigate the news and the world that we're living in right now? And it felt like it needed a whole episode to explore. So that's what we're here to do. I I did just, you know, to be transparent here. I'll tell you about my process, because I set out to try to gather my thoughts on this topic and make a walking episode like all of the other previous ones. And then it just started to feel like, who this is such a big topic and such an important one, and I know so many of us are grappling these days with how to stay engaged and not, you know, not look away, not keep stay paying attention to all of the multiple crises that we're navigating these days, both in the US and in the world, and also take care of ourselves at the same time. It's a really, it's really a big question, so I was funny. I really want to do my best here. This feels like such an important piece of a topic and and a way to use these skills very in a very timely and important way. And the scope of the of the project was started to get a little overwhelming for me, because of how, like, what a good job I wanted to do, and how important it felt. And so I paused and, like sat back and did some of my own checking in with myself practices, and realized that I needed to pull in some of my own support to be able to hold the space for this topic. And you know, we're here doing co regulation conversations. So this is me, kind of actively practicing that and realizing that for some of the bigger topics, it helps to have someone to be in the conversation with me. And Raine, you're one of my trusted team members. Were here. The two of us are here running mind and mountain you have you're such a good collaborator on these topics. For those of you that are into human design, we are here at Mindon mountain, behind the scenes, little bit into all these different forms of self knowledge and human design. My Human Design is a split design, and Raine bridge is my split so that feels like a piece of the puzzle for us. It feels just always feels good to work together. So I'm really glad to have you here at Raine is like the magic maker behind the scenes of a lot of the mind and mountain work. And when you're willing to step in and share space with me. It's really fun to have you come a little bit more around to the front of the camera.

Raine Fryberger 4:05
Well, I'm honored that you asked me to be here, and very excited to help be a co regulator for you while you tackle this, like, tough topic. And I'm honestly, like, really excited to hear what you have to say and to, like, learn a little bit along with all of our friends and listeners out there today, because I'm not immune from this, like, scary thing that we're going to be talking about today. So very, very happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Sarah 4:33
Yeah, none of us are immune, for sure, if we're engaged and paying attention, it makes sense that we'd be feeling the impacts of that. So anything more you want to do a little intro? Who are you? Where are you located? Anything else that might help people get a little sense for who you are?

Raine Fryberger 4:52
Totally, yeah. I live in Fort Collins, Colorado. Raine, now I My roots are in Colorado. Colorado. This is where I grew up, but I just moved back here about a year ago after almost 10 years in Alaska. So I'm really happy to be back home in Colorado. I miss being in the same town as Sarah, but through the wonders of technology, we're still able to make things work. So we love that. I've been at Minden mountain for a few years now, and outside of that, I have two dogs that I really love. I'm really into the visual arts, making them, consuming them, and of course, being outside. I love Mother Nature. And, yeah, I guess that's it. Anything else you'd like me to add?

Sarah 5:49
Oh, no, I It's great. I'm just thinking about I often. I just told the story of when you first started working with me, and how I was like, drowning in the growth that happened at mind and mountain around the covid years, yeah, when everyone's wanted to start training online, and I was still kind of, I think I was still working on my own with a one super part time person, and you sent it, sent a cover letter in that said, I love answering emails. And I was like, oh my god, this is who I need. I need someone to help with my emails, and it's just it's been a perfect fit

Raine Fryberger 6:24
ever so it really has been a perfect fit, and I really do behind the scenes. So this is, like, maybe traditionally, a little out of my comfort zone, but I'm still very happy to be here, and I'm just having a really fun memory of a friend of yours, I think did some human design reading for us at a team retreat a while ago, and she was looking at our charts, and she was just like, I think she said, y'all are each other's people. And we're just like, yeah, yeah, I think so

Sarah 6:53
yeah, we could kind of feel it from the beginning. It's been a really good partnership. Yeah, yeah, okay, so shall we let's see where we go with this topic. One thing that's on my mind is that I want to be able to hold these conversations in ways that tune into our bodies and our nervous systems along the way, and not lose track of like so much of this work is paying attention to the body and what's the story that it's carrying while we're operating in life. So it feels useful if we're going to get into a conversation about the news and the state of the world and the ways we can support ourselves and engaging with that, just to notice that our bodies might already be a little bit like, ho ho, like, amped up or feeling some activation, just with the idea of the topic,

Raine Fryberger 7:52
yeah, I noticed, yeah, forward, like a shrimp already.

Sarah 7:56
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And who you know, for those of you listening to this, is an invitation for all of us to just pause for a minute and notice what's happening with your body, and then sometimes that awareness can give us the chance to offer maybe a little bit of support. Maybe it's feels good to look around your space and notice where you are in time and space right now, let your body notice that

Sarah 8:46
and see if you know, while we're just taking some time to let the body speak, if there's anything that it wants, Like movement or a drink of water, or any anything, sometimes we can't give the body everything at once, but sometimes we can give it just like a little bit more comfort and support can make a pretty big difference in shifting nervous system states.

Sarah 9:19
Yeah, and just remembering. So this is episode six now of the podcast, and if you've been listening in order which you may or may not have, everybody engages with this kind of thing differently. But I've had done a couple somatic skills episodes prior to this on orienting and resourcing, which are really good foundational skills for the topic that we're going to go into, and there's some of my biggest suggestions for when engaging with the news. So that's just a quick review and practice around that the orienting strategy is to let your senses. Notice the space that you're in, and just taking a look around with your eyes or listening to sounds that you hear, or maybe noticing textures.

Sarah 10:24
So that's that practice of helping the body come back into the present moment.

Sarah 10:35
And then the resourcing practice is specific to looking for something that is pleasant or at least neutral, something that helps your body recognize what what's good out there.

Sarah 10:58
Like right now, I have a I'm at my desk, and I have a rock that someone gifted to me, and it it is really nice to look at, and it has a nice texture underneath my skin, my thumb. And I notice when I'm touching it, my body softens a little bit, and my thinking slows down. So that's we're like, looking for something pleasant, and then noticing what the impact is on the body when you're resourced.

Sarah 11:38
And one more little practice here. That is another of my go tos is called bringing on arms and legs. And in this practice, what you do is just let your body move. Notice that it has arms and legs, like stretching out the arms, maybe letting the wrists move. And then for the legs, you could stand up if you wanted to, but sometimes I stay seated and just like pedal my legs a little bit and press the balls of the feet into the ground and lift the heels, kind of one at a time, so you're activating some of the muscles in the legs.

Sarah 12:33
Yeah, so just these three really basic practices are ones that I wanted to introduce at the beginning, because they're ones I circle back to all the time when engaging with these issues that can feel really big and overwhelming for our bodies, and inside of the overwhelm, there's often a bit of a freeze response that comes in. Maybe it's a functional freeze, because you're still doing stuff, still functional, but there's just this kind of sense of overwhelm and like pressure looming. And these practices are ones that help us remember that we can move if we need to move like we have arms and legs and they can move us. It's sounds like simple and obvious, but the body doesn't always really understand that, and then that helping us differentiate between what we're navigating, what we're hearing about, what we're maybe imagining when we see the news or see in our head, differentiate between that and where we actually are in time and space, which is often has some safety around that the body might be lose track of too anything You want to share Raine as after tapping into those, I

Raine Fryberger 14:04
just am always so surprised by how comforting it is to remember that my chair is supporting me. Biggest thing that I always get from these arriving and orienting exercises is like feeling the support in my back and under my legs. The chair is a really helpful resource for me, and one that I often forget about until someone cues me into it. So thanks.

Sarah 14:30
Oh yeah, I love it too. That's one of my favorites as well. I'm standing today as a way to be, like personally, a little bit more mobilized, but that's a favorite of mine too, and it's so nice that it is always there, and it is so human to forget these resources, and even if they're always there, it feels different to bring it to conscious awareness that it is there. That's what helps it impact the nervous system, when we can actually notice. Said it's happening, absolutely

Sarah 15:07
okay. I just got a little noise. I'm gonna put a little clap in. Is there a little background noise there? It got quiet again.

Raine Fryberger 15:17
I didn't hear anything. That's weird. I picked, I picked a cup up.

Sarah 15:22
No, it wasn't that. It was just like a rumble. Oh, huh, okay, well, that was right around 15 minutes. Oh, I do have the timer on here. That's great. Yeah, yeah.

Raine Fryberger 15:39
Here we go, bud.

Sarah 15:41
Okay, so let's roll back in. Okay, so one way I would, let's see. Let me start that again. Okay, so coming back to this question, oh, my God, just the news in your country. So delightful. Way to phrasing this one thing I want to the way I want to frame this conversation, is by coming back to, and I don't think I've expressed this here on this podcast yet, but the the way that nervous system work is was developed through studying animal behavior and the like, the source of a lot of this information, and the way this body of work has evolved really comes from the though The work of observing animals in the wild and noticing the ways that they're able to navigate stress responses and activation cycles and because they're dealing with surviving all the time, but they seem to have a way of like moving through something like a life or death experience without it landing in their body and becoming as traumatized as it seems like humans are, like end up being. And the theory there is that a lot of that has to do with our huge frontal brain, that prefrontal cortex, which is obviously such a benefit for us, it's what helps us hold memories and strategize and understand complex thinking and like do a lot of there's a lot that we do with our cognitive brain, and there's a way that it interacts with the nervous system and the back brain that makes it like, potentially like that. Sometimes it feels like these two parts of our brain haven't really figured out how to work that well together, especially inside of modern America or modern living, not just America, but the ways that the news, the the types of stimulus that were shown in the in the news, and especially if You're consuming it through the online space, with social media, then we're we're receiving so much information at such a quick pace, and our brains, our nervous systems, are more evolved to operate in the I think, of the pace of things that I'm that we're exposed to when We're out on a hiking trip, and there's just so much less stimulus that we are taking in. So of course, I think we all have a sense for this these days that, like it's just a lot for our brains and our bodies, and the way I want to approach and the way I think about navigating the news cycles, I'm really often just thinking about like, what is going on in my animal body when I'm engaging with this, because the brain might, the prefrontal cortex might be able to keep up with it, but the body is often experiencing something different than, than what the what the brain is able to keep up with. So that's kind of one of my primary lenses on this whole conversation. Is to keep it is to think like, what is the animal body experiencing? And I want to make sure to to pause for a second and acknowledge that there is a history in the US, at least, of using dehumanization and the comparisons of ourselves to animal bodies for people of color, especially especially black bodies like that, the way that white supremacy has used animal bodies to dehumanize black bodies, especially as a strategy for white supremacy. And I'm that's not I'm definitely not trying to do that here. Here. I'm trying to talk about how inside of all of our human bodies. Bodies. There is an animal body that has its own wisdom and its own messages for us, and almost elevate that, and think about that as like something that has a lot of wisdom for us and a lot to be learned from. And I just want to make sure to acknowledge that history of it too, because it gets a little bit complicated in there. The I got into this quite a bit in the previous episode. Just a little bit of like brain science perspective here. Because for talking about the prefrontal cortex that does all our like cognitive thinking, and the back brain, the limbic system, that does our nervous system and our survival responses, there's that little this little bridge that connects them that's called the angular cingulate. And again, none of this is that important to remember unless you are like nerding out on it with me, but I find it useful to have in mind that there's a little thing called the angular cingulate that functions as a bridge between the thinking brain and the survival brain. And depending on how safe we feel, depending on that back brain, if it's feeling safe, it opens up that pathway so that the front of the brain can speak to the back of the brain and we can navigate. We can keep our cognition on board and our strategies and our memories and our long term planning and and tune into the body at the same time, but that only is available when the angular cingulate is plumped up and when that'll and when the body is feeling safe enough. It doesn't have to be perfectly safe, but it does have to know that there's some safety here. When, when things get really intense and the brain and the body gets really activated and feels like it's under, like, full on threat, then the the brain shuts that pathway down and it it turns into like a spider web thickness, so there's barely any messages that can go through, because the priority is survival. It's like we got to get ourselves out of this situation. And so we're just then in reactivity mode, and we can't access the rest of our brain. And like, really, blood flow is down. There's, there's a whole physiology that's changing, and so, so we end up doing things in the moment that our body is saying you need to do this to survive. And then we maybe get out of get into a less stressful situation, come down from it and realize after the fact, like, wow, why did I act like that? I wish I would have like, why didn't I remember all this other stuff and, oh, I should have done this instead, like, all these other ideas come through. That's because that Angular cingulate is getting is returning to functionality again, and we're able to use more of our brain.

Raine Fryberger 22:59
Yeah, I see you nodding, yeah. It just is really, I really appreciate the kind of nerding out scientific breakdown of all of it, because when you understand the like, why behind the thing, I feel like it's a lot easier to accept, like, why these things we're talking about will help and move forward a little bit. And it also just helps so much to understand, like, past human behavior, right?

Sarah 23:28
Yeah, like, your own past behavior, or Maya, yeah, like, oh, that's

Raine Fryberger 23:32
why past behavior, like, and I'm like, Oh, I was like, a little snappy, and I think it's because I was like, scared. And, you know, that's why I couldn't make those decisions, or, like, communicate in a better way in that moment. You know, it's really interesting to understand the physiology behind all of it.

Sarah 23:52
Yeah, yeah. I find that true for myself too. Really helps understand it and realize that it was like, a it's a physiological thing. It's not just something that you're like, missing skills on or, like, handled wrong, yeah, just your body was doing a thing that it was trying to do to keep you alive. Yeah, yeah. So, oh God,

Raine Fryberger 24:16
just really helpful context. Okay, cool,

Sarah 24:19
yeah, yeah. So that's, that's like, the framing that I have for this whole conversation is like, so we were, we've got a we've got an animal body that's really designed to survive, and when that animal body is very activated, we don't have access to the rest of the brain, so then we can't do long term strategic thinking. And then, you know, it coming back to news that that's all just framing the conversation, but coming back to the news like it makes, it's a it's an accurate response, it's a co. Hearing response to be stressed when you're watching your country slide toward authoritarianism and collapse like that is that is so accurate that like that's a stressful situation to be watching happen. And I'm speaking here as someone who lives in the US, Raine and I both live here, but we know where that there are folks in our audience that are outside of the US. And the person who asked this question was from Canada. You know, we have folks potentially around the world engaging here, and these movements are happening in different parts of the world in different ways. There is fashion Fascism is something that's gaining. I mean, it's always been around, and it has. It's having a moment right now, and we'll see where it goes. But for one, I like, really want to make sure we all realize that, like, yeah, it makes sense to be stressed under this and we're not trying with this work to make that stress go away, because that would be gaslighting ourselves and trying to and, like using this idea that, like, being in a healthy nervous system means that you're just like calm all the time. Well, that would be nice if the world gave us like that situation. But inside of, like a world that's where there's a lot of shitty things happening and also personal tragedies that we're navigating, and all sorts of things like those aren't situations that require calm. Those are situations where you're actually needing activation and your stress is valid

Raine Fryberger 26:39
the deeply appropriate response,

Sarah 26:43
exactly, yeah, yeah. I would be more worried if you weren't, if you like, were we engaging with this stuff? And, like, totally fine. That would be, that would be

Raine Fryberger 26:53
weird. That would be something, yeah,

Sarah 26:57
yeah, yeah. And you know, this is a tenant of nervous system work too, that it's like activation isn't a problem, and activation is part of the wide range of the nervous system experience that we want to have access to. And if we there's that misconception that you should be just calm all the time, but really we want to be able to activate. We activation is what gets us out of bed in the morning. It's what gets us up a mountain if we want to go hiking, and it's what gets us to wash the dishes at the end of the day. It's like we need activation to do these things, some of why I'm standing up and why I do a lot of these podcasts, moving because it's like a little bit of activation helps the brain work a little bit better, and helps our creativity go and so all of these things. Activation is not a problem, and when we get stuck in it, it does start to become a problem. It's like this, our bodies are designed to move in and out of activation in ideally, a wave pattern. So it does start to get a pro to be a problem, if it's chronic, and if we're always activated, and we and because the world is like, always throwing you things that you could that could be stressful, there is that potential for to be like, stuck in an activated state and feel like you like, this idea of, like, don't, don't look away. Like we always need to be up there activated. And, like, tracking all of the world problems all at once, like that is going to have consequences for the nervous system. Yeah, how is, how do you navigate that? Raine, is that?

Raine Fryberger 28:40
I think it's having had the benefit of learning so much from you and learning a little bit from other Somatic Experiencing teachers, what you were just discussing, has been super helpful for me. The last six months, like year or so, that idea that a healthy nervous system isn't one that's calm all the time, but it's one that's able to, like, move between phases of activation consistently. And I think there is like, for me, and probably for a lot of other people too, there's like, a sense of guilt, like looking at the news and seeing something really upsetting, I think especially when it's something that maybe like, I hold a lot of privilege when it's like something that my privilege shields me from maybe feeling the full force of where it doesn't. For other people in my life, there's like, a part of me that feels a little bit guilty to, like, want to take a break, or, like, diffuse a little bit, or something like that. But what helps me remembered that it's important to be able to, like, slide down to that other side of the deactivation is if you do get stuck in that activated place, like, that's how burnout happens, right? And we're we're no good to anybody if we're burnt out. And that's what I'm telling myself, as I'm kind of, like, trying to. Enforce these things that we're chatting about today. So like, I can take a break and, like, get a little bit of relief, and then I can, like, look back towards things again, when, when it's time, when I have the capacity,

Sarah 30:14
yeah, yeah. That's so good. Thanks for naming all of that. I'm sure that's yeah, I relate, and I bet other people do too, yeah, yeah. And the the other pieces of that, that, that I think of too, are like, if we're activated and our Angular cingulate is shut down and our brain isn't connected, that I'm actually not going to be that effective long term, like the the mobilization that happens when we when we see something stressful, and our body fills with CHARGE, that's, that's a physiological response designed to help you mobilize and go and, like, fight off the mountain lion or run away from the, not the bear, because you Don't run from a bear, but run away from something that would be appropriate to from or make yourself really big so you can be scary to the bear like that. That's the mobilization response. It's there to help you fight or flee from an actual physical threat that's there that's going to, like, potentially damage your physical being. It's Mama Bear energy protect your cubs. It's like, it's that kind of force. But so many of our modern situations, our modern stressors, are these very complex social problems, these long term situations that that require really strategic thinking, they require mobilization, but they also require strategy and working together and thinking about what we've learned from people who came before us, and what we're going to do differently now, like this is That's all front brain activity, so that's not going to be as effective when we're inside of those activation waves. So, but, but, you know, we still need and that's different for someone who's say, an immigrant, and who's seeing ice on the street, and that activation that they're going to like, they might need some of that real time activation to be able to, like, Go hide somewhere, or maybe, and maybe the people, maybe the people with privilege around need that actual real time activation to be able to step in and use their bodies or use their voice or get out their phone to record like, there are times in our in our current situation, where we need that real time activation to move our bodies and do something in real, like real physical action.

Raine Fryberger 32:56
And it's really cool then, yeah, it's

Sarah 32:59
super important. Yeah, yeah. And necessary. So we do want access to that ability to feel that activation and move. And then we have to this. A lot of this work is under is helping the actual physical body understand the difference between those times when we need the physical action and so many of these other times where we're engaging with the news through, like, through a screen, or through your ears, or we're not actually in in the physical situation, but our body, if you've been listening to these episodes, I've said this a bunch, but our our nervous system works through the senses so and it doesn't know time. It just knows with a sensory input that it's getting. So if it's reading, if it's reading news, or if it's seeing images, it's in taking that information, and it's responding to it physically, like as if it was in real time happening in front of us. So that's where things get really tricky for for the body. Who's like, What do you mean? Like, all this horrible stuff is happening and it's shooting up your body with all the stress hormones that are designed to mobilize, and you actually you're just reading it through the screen. So yeah, that's when, yeah, that's when these basic practices of orienting and resourcing can really like they come in. I use them all the time. When I'm scrolling or reading news. Is like doing a little bit of like feeling, doing a little bit of scrolling or feeling my like, for me, it's, it's mostly through the body that I get that information. Now I like, feel my stress levels rise, like I feel my shoulders tense up, or my jaw, like I'm getting little clues of like, Oh, my body's getting activated. Yeah, and I can feel the sensations of that now these days, after practicing a lot of this work. But I wonder if that's true for for others of you who are listening, if there's ways that you can start to clue into the way your body's starting to react as you're engaging with media, and then that, for me, is like a clue. Okay, my body's getting wrapped up in this story, which is obviously very stressful, and I need to help remind it where it is right now, because the situation we're in is actually a room that has four walls and a roof and a ceiling and plants and books, and there's actually very little threat around me in this actual moment.

Raine Fryberger 35:52
Yeah, that's it's interesting to hear that your stress cues coming from that are coming from your body. And for me, it's almost like my body goes offline. It's like, I forget that I have a body. I'm just like a brain looking at this little screen. And the cue that I start to get is when all of a sudden I'm like, where has all of my peripheral vision gone? Like, am I just in a tunnel? And I have to kind of like shake out of it a little bit.

Sarah 36:28
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm curious. I'm like, curious to go back in time in my own journey before I started doing so much of this Somatic Experiencing work, and to know if, I don't know if that was always true for me, if that the access to the current, like subtle sensations of my body I've if I've always had that, or if that's something it's for sure, something that's grown a lot with practice and has helped me get earlier clues about where I'm at in my in that stress wave by noticing those little sensations earlier and earlier and earlier. So I can catch them now when they're just starting at, they're like, at a, at a one, instead of catching them when they're at like, a eight or nine, and things are, things are shut down. But I love that you're like, anything you can notice. Basically that helps you catch like, Oh, I'm getting really, my brain's getting really wrapped up in whatever we're consuming and losing track of where I actually am in present time. Anything works. So I love that, like the sense of peripheral vision going away, or the sense of being in a tunnel, or losing connection with your body,

Raine Fryberger 37:40
yeah, yeah, come back to the room. Raine, yeah,

Sarah 37:44
yeah, yeah. So that's right, I feel like that's one of the basic practices, and I hope that we've made a good argument for why it's worth doing, because I know there's also the sense out there, and even some some people talk about this, especially in the social justice space, I see this about like it like you. It's not okay to look away, or it's like you should this. This is such a these causes are so important that they really feel like we need to be engaging with them all the time. But from a body perspective, the body is just really not built for that. And thank goodness for this is another place where I learned lean on CO regulation for because, like, we really can't make any significant change happen alone, and that's why we do this work in community and with others, because our bodies aren't designed to stay mobilized and activated long term these problems require long term solutions and and that happens through. It's like, I think of it as a relay race, really, where we're carry it for a little while, and then you then you deactivate, you come down and rest, and someone else can carry the baton for a while. So there's, there's really, yeah, there's no way to do it without a community around us.

Raine Fryberger 39:09
Yeah, no way to do the change alone.

Sarah 39:14
Yeah, yeah. So it reminds me of the Mr. Rogers quote, look for the helpers. It's one of my favorites. I grew up on Mr.

Raine Fryberger 39:28
Rogers, me too, which says something about us, but that's okay,

Sarah 39:37
yeah, and that's that in itself. Like that, quote points to the stress of resourcing like that. That's actually resourcing that strategy, like, quote, unquote strategy. You know that we can put into a nervous system, like a nervous system skill, quote, unquote. But like that's also something that our we know to do. And. Well, there's lots of different ways to access it, and that, that practice of looking for the helpers, looking for the people who are doing good work, look, looking for the things that are going well, or even just okay, I'll kind of take anything these days, anything that's going like a little bit okay, is really an important thing to look for and notice and let land in your body. Let your body notice it. You know, our nervous system, because it's got this survival priority, it's going to be quicker to notice threat and things that are going wrong or feel scary or feel like problems, and those are important to identify and notice. And it's only part of the story. It's really true. You know, it's only part of what's going on. There are also lots of good things happening out there, and there's a lot of beauty in the world, and lots of amazing people working really hard to make good things happen. And that that is another of my like active practices, especially when I am find myself tracking all of the social problems that we have, and is to also track the solutions and the good news. And we I find I have to put more effort into it because of that default, that brain gravity and feeling like, no, the problems are the important things. But actually, from a nervous system lens, the resources are just as important, if not more.

Raine Fryberger 41:42
Yeah, it's interesting how it's so much harder to actively look for and celebrate the good once you've found it. I think I have a tendency to ask any therapist I've ever had, I have a tendency to, like, point it out, and then move on really quick and be like, okay, but let's get to the like, let's get to the bad thing, or the thing that I need help with. And it takes practice. It just really takes practice.

Sarah 42:10
Yeah, yep, it really does. Yeah, oh my gosh. I've sat inside of so many of my own se sessions, spending, like, in that same dilemma of like, oh, but there's, there's like, stuckness over here, discomfort over here, something I want to get to, but when you know, then the way that works on, just like a quick physiology there too, is that the the nervous system, it really will only, it's only open to Making change when it's feeling safe enough. And so we really need a container of safety and resource available inside of the like felt sense experience to be able to go into those that that tricky stuff and actually make progress with it. So so really, on a nervous system lens, the resourcing is such an important piece of it. And I don't know when it comes to political change, that gets a little bit trickier. But I because, of course, the there are lots of problems that we need solutions to. The way I think of that is like we really, just, we really need to be oriented inside of our change making work toward what we want to create, like, what are we building here? Because just fighting against something is exhausting. It's demoralizing, and it still keeps you in a relationship with the thing that's not working and fighting against it. And I'll just shout out to Dr T, who we both went to for social justice training, and teaches from a liberation model, which points you toward like, instead of being anti something, let's think about like, what are we for? And keep in touch with the vision for what we're what we're wanting to create, because that can, that can keep us pointed toward the liberatory place where we want to end up.

Raine Fryberger 44:08
And it's like such a resource in itself, like having that vision for the future and what you're working towards, like, that's what I've found since I've had that shift that Dr T taught us, is I I get a lot more like, restoration and strength and hope from the like, what are we working towards model, instead of just looking at the what are we working against? And it makes it feel like, so much easier to like, I don't know, like, stay in the game, or like, keep at it. I'm like, not quite sure how to say it, but like that shift in itself has just been so incredibly resourcing, yeah, just now when we're talking about it, I can feel that. I feel like, body, right? Like, yeah, you felt it too, yeah. Like, goosebumps. Every time I talk about it, like,

Sarah 44:58
yeah, it like, right? Right away there's an opening my body like, softens back. I feel like my perspective opens up and I'm like, instantly less anxious and way more feeling like, Okay, this is something, this feels doable to stay in the in the vision of creating something the world that we want to see

Raine Fryberger 45:19
totally. That was cool. Yeah. We both really,

Sarah 45:22
yeah, nice, nice. So let's just bring this back to the listeners, because if I'm hoping you too, can feel a little bit of what just happened here between us when we started to think about instead of all of the social problems and all of the news to think about, what can we what are we fighting for, what are we wanting to build, and where, where are we going with all of this that that wild, dreaming about what might be possible and what kind of what we want to create, That is a very different way to engage with change, making work and with the news. So if you, I hope you felt that, and if you didn't, maybe take a pause, and it could be like something good to just imagine for a little bit, or do some writing about, but getting spending some time anchoring in that, that resource of a liberatory model, thinking about where we want to be headed.

Sarah 46:35
Okay, there's a couple more points here. I just want to anchor in as we move toward the end of this conversation. So just thinking about a couple like so when we're engaged with media, with news, and keeping that, that bridge, that Angular cingulate in mind, it makes sense to be activated and to feel some of that charge in your body, whether or not you're conscious of it. You know, sometimes we get, like you said, Raine, disconnected from our bodies and might not notice that it's in there, the simple practice of tethering yourself to safety, just noticing anything that signals safety in the moment can have a huge impact in keeping that Angular cingulate open enough to keep your your full brain on board so that that's again, that practice I go to orienting and resourcing for that. I go to I go to bringing out arms and legs and helping your body remember that it can move. I guess something that I didn't mention earlier was that when we have a lot of mobilization and like that, mobilization energy comes on, but then we realize that, like, this isn't a situation that requires me to actually, like, fight or or flee then, but and then we keep engaging with more stressors, like, imagine scroll continuing to scroll, and the and the charge just kind of builds up and builds up. That's often when the body switches strategies and then goes into a freeze, because it's realizing that this charge doesn't have any outlet. It's not gonna, nothing's gonna, we don't have anything to do with it. So that gets a little bit trickier to navigate. I think that's why many of us reach for things like exercise or outdoor time, because that will actually help mobilize some of that, that same energy that was going to be used for fighting or fleeing. We can actually, we can get some of that energy moving out of the body through exercise. So that's that's a decent strategy for navigating some of that, some of that actual physical response when it when it flips and it gets like, it stays in the body. And the body also knows, like, I can't do anything with this energy, and free starts to come on. That's when we those that exercise like bringing on arms and legs can help the body remember like, Yes, this is a very overwhelming situation. Yes, there's a lot going on here. And just remembering that if I need to move, I can that bring on arms and legs. Strategy is one for working with some of that freeze response in a gentle way. I

Sarah 49:48
Yeah, and then so I'm, let's see I'm, I've got a couple strategies here. I feel like a little bit conscious of not wanting to give you too many strategies, because I. Um, the idea of a strategy is different the cognition, the like wrapping your brain around a strategy is different than the ability to actually, like, utilize it in real time. And sometimes, when we have strategies and we think we should be able to access them, it can actually add to frustration, because then it feels like I should know how to do this, but, but I'm but I find myself not actually reaching for it when I need it. So this is, this gets a little bit tricky to share outside of a practice space. So maybe that's a plug for some of our other containers where we have more time to actually practice these strategies together and lay down the neural pathways in a like in a in a container where you have some space to play with it in a safe environment, start to get the body used to accessing that and then bring them in. And then you can carry them on in your own, like personal life, outside of guided space. But, but you know, I'll, I will mention, you know, thinking again about the animal body, if there is frustration, which is or anger, or, you know, that's like all of that's on a fight response continuum, and is such a, such a common response to news that's that we don't like is to have that like experience. Also, I'm a double Aries, so I have a lot of that personally, that like Ra, that fight response energy, I have access to that, and it's a big part of the way I access nerve and teach nervous system work, because it's fight response is one that many women, especially, have been conditioned out of having access to and it's actually one of our most protective it's one of the things when we have access to it, it can help us actually physically stay safer, and our help our body know that we're safe when we when it knows we have access to some fight response. So some I'm always asking, like, what, what does my body want to do when it's getting frustrated by something, when something's really, like, really horrible that I'm seeing, and we can't believe that this is being perpetuated, and, like, the reality of that is hard to hold. The body often wants to do something with that. And I'm, I'm always curious if there's like some energy in the jaw that might want to, like, maybe some, some growls, or like some, maybe there's like, some, some, something that your hands want to do, like, it might want to claw. Were we an animal? You know, if there was an animal that wanted to respond, it might want to, like, rip, somebody like, make some like, clawing, some damage happen. And so the idea here would be to just like, like, feel into that impulse a little bit and even amplify it and give it some way to move. So some jaw motion, like some I like, to put on, like some music and get some space and do a little bit of like growling or make some sounds, and with the hands, like squeezing a pillow can be a nice thing to do. And and then I often hear people say, like, my body doesn't want to, like, fight. It wants to, like, hide under a blanket and collapse and go, like, get some get some space from this. And that's that's also a really intelligent response, right? That would actually also help an animal survive the situation. It would be to, like, go hide in a cave somewhere, so we can connect with the intelligence behind that. And again, there's not a problem with following it for a little bit. I think you might just want to, like, let yourself collapse, go under a blanket, get some space. And then the skillful part there is to actually feel the relief of getting that impulse, being able to complete that impulse, being able to get some space and get some support from the blanket or from the couch, or some some angst from the claws, from the squeezing of the pillow, whichever direction it goes for you, we if we're still split in with our attention and tracking the threat then and also hiding under the blanket, you know that's gonna that's that doesn't land as well inside a. Of like, here I am safe and resourced and getting a break from this, we actually need to, like, set the set the threat aside, pause the attention on the external, on the thing that's stressful, and let the body take in the that the impulse that you just followed got you something that feels good, and you and like, try to take that good thing in a little bit more,

Raine Fryberger 55:28
yeah, understanding the relief versus just like being stressed out in a comfortable place.

Sarah 55:35
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We miss the you miss the the resource. If we're still, like, mostly focused on the shitty situation and not on the like, fact that here I am, yeah,

Raine Fryberger 55:57
in my getting my cozy blanket or on my couch, but I'm still just like, fixating on this thing, like we're kind of missing the point of the resourcing of that part of it.

Sarah 56:10
Yeah, yeah, yep, which is super easy to do, because, of course, our brain is going to, like, latch onto the stressor and not really want to let it go. So that's that's actually takes some skill to do and some some capacity, and it might be doable now that we've talked about it, and you might need some co regulation to do it too. It's and this is another place where I lean on other people pretty often, and it can really be helpful to call, call in a friend and share the stressful part, and then share the part after the stressful part, the other stuff, and get some support in moving out of that. It's, you know, it's a trauma vortex or a stress vortex. Get some support in coming out of that and landing in the safety together. Share the relief too. Yeah, share the relief too. Yeah, yeah, because we can co dysregulate by sharing the stressful stuff, and our systems will spin out together. But co regulating is when we land on solid ground in the resource together and are able to come back down and remember, remember the good things, remember the things that are that we're building, that we're working toward, and the people that are out there doing that with us.

Raine Fryberger 57:28
Yeah, I wrote that one down. I need some more practice with that one.

Sarah 57:33
Yeah, yeah. It's real. It's an active practice for me too. Okay, and then one more favorite, one that I always love again, thinking about the way that our bodies are designed to help us stay safe and our an animal body thinking I'm thinking about like a wolf, one of my favorite like ways to feel into this work are through wolves and the wolf sister pack that's, I imagine, like out there fighting the good fight with me. And so, you know, a wolf would growl if they saw a situation that needed that would be one of their early warning signs to someone that was coming after their cub, their pups, they would, they would actually make some noise. And as humans too, our voice is one of our primary defense mechanisms. When we have access to it, we can we can negotiate. We can set boundaries. We can say, No, we have a lot of access to protective mechanisms through our voice. And so another strategy I lean on pretty often. Again, when I am noticing my activation show up in my body After navigating the news, I'll feel that and then remember that my voice is one of my protective strategies, and I'll take that activation in my in my system and use it to mobilize me off of social media or off of the news and over to the five calls app, which is an app that's Designed for making calls to representatives and senators, and then call up pick a cause. It makes it really easy just to, like, pick a cause and dial into your representatives, and then when I get I you just get a voicemail pretty much every time I think I've only gotten a real person once. But I appreciate that, because all I'm wanting to use that for is a place to mobilize that activation that was in my body and tell them what I'm frustrated about. And and there's a script in the app so you can, like, read a script if this is something that feels new or scary, because it for sure did for me at the beginning, but I. As I started doing this and got some reps in, it got it's gotten easier to just let a little bit of that primal anger come out and just let them hear me being angry about these situations, and let let it land on their voicemails. And then I get to check a little box off in the app that I called someone, I feel like I did something. You know, it's, it's a small something, but it but those calls matter in the big scheme of things. And for me personally, it gives me some huge relief to feel my life force, of my voice, moving out through my body and landing with someone who has some power in that federal system to do something with it. So then I get to feel the satisfaction and the the accomplishment of letting that wave move out through me and land somewhere. And then I get to soak in the aftermath of that wave.

Raine Fryberger 1:01:00
Yes, and I do have to say it's introvert approved. It's really easy to use fellow introverts out there. You're going to be okay. I can do it. You can do it. And I do feel like it's like, just hearing you talk about that now, I feel like it's one of the, like, very few things that we can do in these times that we're living in where you get just like, a tiny bit of instant gratification, just like, Yeah, I did it,

Sarah 1:01:30
I did it, yeah, the I did it feeling is really something, yeah. And that little bit of gratification is is a resource, and that's that we want to feel that and really count it. Think it can get dangerous when we're we have the voice saying, like, that's not enough, or whatever, but there, but that, that little gem of like, I, I did it. We want to let that land in the body too, and recognize that something, something could happen there. Yeah. Okay. I feel like we're getting toward completion. Is there anything else, anything else that's working for you these days, Raine, or anything else you'd share?

Raine Fryberger 1:02:13
Let me think for a second, phoning lots of friends, that's been a big part of CO regulation for me around the news these days, limiting my time on social media a little bit more consciously than I have in the past, I think has been really helpful, because it's the The whiplash of being on social media right now is so real. One second looking at your friends like adorable new baby, and the next second, you're maybe learning something about someone that you thought you knew that is not so positive and it's a lot so taking some moderation and breaks there is fine and Okay, and just Yeah, remembering that the actions we can take, even when they're small, like the five calls, aren't in vain because we're working towards something better. I think that's all that I'm coming back to. But taking breaks, taking breaks is the big one.

Sarah 1:03:24
Yeah, I actually have, um, I got one, uh, I got a brick. So it's a, I had to spend some money on it. But, um, it's a, it's been working for me really well. It's a little thing that is, like magnetic that goes on your fridge, and then it goes with an app. And when you brick your phone, it shuts down. You can set it up with however many whatever you want it to cut you off of. But my, my primarily, one is Instagram, and so I can brick my phone, and then I can't get on Instagram until I actually, like, get up and walk over or get to the get to the fridge or wherever you put this thing. And it's been, like, quite, quite effective at helping me like, times when I'm like, I don't need to be I'm done for the night, and so I can hit that brick my phone, and then I would have ended up back on that app had I not like, but I'm not going to actually get up and walk over and unbrick it. So that's been that's been working really

Raine Fryberger 1:04:22
well. That's so funny, because I just was looking into bricks today. Yeah, signed up for the discount code and everything, but I downloaded a different app that is really silly, and it's a little it's a little bean, and you set like how long you want to and you can choose which apps it deactivates and which ones it doesn't. And so I'm using it mostly for social media, but I tell my little bean like, Okay, I'm giving myself two hours to focus right now. And while you're focusing, your little bean is knitting socks. Phone back up and try to open one of those. Apps. It's like, Are you sure, like, your little beans not going to be able to finish project if you log into Instagram right now? Oh my gosh, please. Like, don't stop because of me and I, like, put that. It's so funny, but it's really working for me. I love it. That is so cute. It's really adorable.

Sarah 1:05:24
Wow, amazing. Gosh. I do love how technology can also help us follow through on the things that we want for ourselves.

Raine Fryberger 1:05:34
Technology can help us with our technology. Yeah,

Sarah 1:05:37
yeah. Oh my gosh, go bean. Okay. That's amazing. Well, anybody listening? If you have any other suggestions, please send them over. We're always looking for more. And I feel like this is a big enough topic that we'll we'll keep coming back to it, because this feels like one of the, one of the big ones of the life these days, is, how are we? How are we taking care of ourselves through these times? So I hope that you found something helpful from today. It was really a fun conversation to have, and thanks Raine for helping me hold it. And yeah, I look forward to more conversations with you in the future.

Raine Fryberger 1:06:20
Thanks for having me. This was really nice.

Sarah 1:06:24
All right, y'all, we'll see you next time. We'll put a question and answer box link in the show notes. If you have any other questions to prompt our next episode, if you have any for Raine, specifically, send them over.

Raine Fryberger 1:06:36
Thanks everyone. Okay. Bye. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai