Sarah + Leslie
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[00:00:00]
Sarah: Hi, everyone. Welcome back. We're here with Lesley Tagorda today, my guest on Co-regulation Conversations. And Lesley is a good friend of mine. We have been working together for a while now. L- I think we
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: through a business group that we were in together, like
Leslie Tagorda: Before the pandemic
Sarah: Yeah, before the pandemic, right. We went through the pande- pandemic basically together with our businesses.
Leslie Tagorda: We sure did. Oh, thank goodness.
Sarah: And I mean, I've learned so much of what I know about astrology through studying with you, and, um, your lens on it is really, I find to be really unique inside of the astro world. And, um, and then I, people who are listening might have maybe been around, but when my, rebranded my business and took on the Mind and Mountain name, and Lesley and her team helped me redo our website [00:01:00] along with that.
So the website that I love still is the work of Lesley and her team, and, and she used some astrology in the design of that. So I'm really just excited to have you here and talk about all of this with you.
Leslie Tagorda: Oh, Sarah, my heart is so full. Thank you for having me here, and just like we've had a little bit of a gap in like communications as, you know, as life happens. All- and I just can't wait to hear all the things that have transpired for you
Sarah: Yeah, dude, you too. You've been, um, yeah, we have some catching up to
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: And yeah, this, I launched this podcast a year ago, and I was realizing as I was thinking about having this conversation that I haven't really talked about astrology on it. And so this feels a little bit like me coming out as an astro nerd here publicly.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes. Oh my gosh, you're such a gifted astrologer, Sarah, for like all like your knowledge and wisdom. Like, you're so good at it
Sarah: Well, it, it just, for me, it feels like it [00:02:00] overlaps so well onto this other realm that I do talk a lot about here, which is, like, co-regulation and coming into a relationship with ourselves. And when I think about co-regulating, it's, like, in this expansive way that it's not just, like, between humans, but it's also, like, between our bodies and the Earth and the animals and also
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: honestly.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: that's at least how I figure, that's how I feel into as a really useful resource for me personally. I do
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: like, it's probably, I don't know that everybody here is used to thinking of it in that way, so. But just like always, you know, I'm always like, lean on whatever forms of co-regulation work for you and experiment and leave the rest.
And so this might open up some doors for some people who hadn't considered astrology in that way before
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. Well, you know, when I think about astrology, and especially for if there's people who are new to [00:03:00] astrology or don't really understand astrology, when we think about that, m- you talk about that, that the relationship, right? Astrology is just a form of a, a relationship of just a energetic pattern, um, an energetic frequency.
So we can think of just, like, the, the timing of everything, these cycles, these rhythms, these seasons that astrology overlays. There's all of these different cycles and seasons of the sun, of the moon, of Venus, of Mercury, all of the different planets, and how we are living in that cosmic weather, that pattern that then impacts our own energies.
I mean, for people who get migraines, you absolutely know when there's a high pressure system coming through because your body is responding. And so astrologically, there's just another layer of that energy coming through.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It like, it does feel like a weather pattern,
Leslie Tagorda: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: it may [00:04:00] be in some ways a s- more subtle one than the weather that's like wind is blowing you in the face or whatever. But, but I mean, we feel these cycles emotionally and maybe even on our bo- in our bodies on a very subtle way
Leslie Tagorda: Absolutely. I wouldn't even say it's, it's that subtle. I, I would say, like, whether you're conscious to it or not is gonna give you that, that subtlety to it because, I mean, like, when we have, like, a Mercury retrograde and our communications go haywire, you're still having those communications go haywire and, like, crossing paths even if you know that there's a Mercury retrograde happening
Sarah: Yeah, or you don't and you don't
Leslie Tagorda: Right.
Sarah: but it's still,
Leslie Tagorda: It's all-
Sarah: you're potentially still running into the roadblocks
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. Yeah. And so I love what you, what you said about that kind of the, the co-regulation and the relationship because astrology is also a very relation- [00:05:00] relational tool, um, to me to reclaim and to come back, to reconnect to who you are before the world and society started shoulding yourself, right?
And so it's a way of coming back. Um, I do see astrology as a way, a, a very useful way of co-regulation, coming back to yourself
Sarah: Yeah. Okay, so definitely wanna get into that. I, but I do
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: I want people to get a chance to know you a little bit maybe first. So would you share more about, like, who you are and your background and what got you into this?
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. Um, I am a third career astrologer, um, coming from brand strategy and classical music. And so, um, I was also born, I'm a mixed race, um, Hawaii-born astrologer. So being born and raised in Hawaii, um, I, I'm not Hawaiian blooded, [00:06:00] but being born and raised in Hawaii, the values of aloha, the spirit of love, and kuleana, the, the value of reciprocity and responsibility are interwoven through everything I do.
So I like to say that I approach astrology from a decolonial thinking perspective, meaning astrology was colonized too. Um, a lot of separation, a lot of binary good and bad, a lot of, um, system, system, systemic oppression built into astrology that I try to dismantle so that we can reconnect in a way that we're not, you know, shoving ourselves into binaries.
Um, I came into astrology simply because I grew up as a mixed race person in Hawaii, always conforming and fitting into my different families. In my white family, I was too brown. In my Filipino family, I was called the [00:07:00] whitey, the haole. And in my Japanese family that I wasn't blood related to, I could just sense there was just this big difference.
And so growing up, just as a form of survival, I literally was conforming myselves into these places to make my different, like, greater tribe be more comfortable with me. Um, I think that was ultimately a gift, even though it was a really challenging upbringing, because it really got me in touch with identity and who we are before, again, culture and from my experience, my family, you know, decided who I needed to be.
And so astrology was that tool. As soon as I first heard about astrology and discovered that I was Aquarius, I was just in love with astrology, and I feel like I've been studying this for lifetimes. And it took me a while, right, coming out of that kind of woo-woo closet to start to weave into astrology, [00:08:00] into my branding practices, into my leadership practices, into entrepreneurial practices.
And it's been about seven or eight years, and I haven't looked back since.
Sarah: Love that. Yeah. Yeah, well, uh, you know, there's something there I think that you're mentioning about the way that astrology can help you be more yourself or, like, help...
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: I guess one of the ways I f- it feels like it works for me is it helps me feel like I make sense
Leslie Tagorda: Does it help you make you feel like you like, you're like, "Oh yeah, look at my chart. I'm so cool."
Sarah: Oh gosh, do I have that? I don't know if I have the I am so cool, but I have the like, oh, these like that I have or these ways that I think about things, these ways I feel weird or different.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: like, it's like, oh, this, this comes from somewhere, and I can, I can e- more easily embrace it rather than feeling like there's a [00:09:00] conflict about it
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah, fighting it, right? Well, I hope that everybody gets to the point where they look at their chart and go, "Oh my gosh, I love my chart. This is so me." It took me a while, but I do feel like that. Um, yeah, so, you know, for those of, you know, what, w- what Sarah and I talking about, we're talking about our birth chart or our natal chart.
And what our natal chart is, it's an imprint, a map of the sky that was created from that place, so wherever you were born. So Sarah was born in, in Alaska, as we know. I was born in Hawaii. Um, from that place at that specific time that you took your first breath, the s- the, the planets were positioned in the sky, making sacred geometry with each other.
So Sarah has her sun and her moon in, like, in beautiful blending conjunction, sitting opposite a bunch of Libra planets, so creating this tension in the sky. And so all of these [00:10:00] planets live in relationship to each other and create these energies that we then take a look at. And I call this your, your imprint, your energetic imprint.
Um, you know, society conditioning, your lived experiences take us off this path, kind of just, like, blow us off. And as we get older, as we are working on our self-actualization, our self becoming, it's our job to come back to this imprint and stop, what you're saying, fighting the imprint. And usually that fighting comes from a lot of, like, internalized oppression from believing societal and systemic structures that don't really serve us because, of course, society wants us to be in scarcity, wants us to be in doubt.
And when we start to internalize those beliefs, that's where we get blown off our course. And then so to stop fighting our chart and start coming back [00:11:00] to our original imprint is really what creates the co-regulation within us, but then allows us to lead from this place of inherent worth and just do the thing that we want to do instead of the thing that we should do.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And it fits so well with, I mean, there's so much unlearning and deconditioning inside of that. I, I mean, I, I really love how you center that in your approach. It's like who we are is there, and then there's all this lay- all these layers of conditioning on top that blow us off course, and it, the work then is just to come back into that, like, alignment with what was there before. And I f-
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: again, that's another way that works for me to consider that a form of co-regulating 'cause it is like these planets are here kind of validating the, the things that I'm feeling on the inside. And so then it's like between me and the planet and the relationship that we have together, it, like, helps us, [00:12:00] uh, maybe like be fortified to, to be a little different or to break some of those rules inside of the culture.
Leslie Tagorda: Oh, absolutely. To cycle break, to break, you know, apart all those cycles that have, you know, for our, the previous generations, our parents' generations, our grandparents' generations, where they were locked into these kind of inherited beliefs or systems. I think it's our generation's responsibility to break out of those cycles
Sarah: Yeah, and it's such a big job that it, it's like we need all the help we can get. So if
Leslie Tagorda: Oh.
Sarah: uh, astrology can help fortify us, and together we fortify each other, and all of that feels like really important stuff.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh. And so when we look at our charts, each of these planets, they have specific roles and responsibilities. These, I call them, um, because I look at astrology as a language of change. And so when we think of these planets, they all represent different [00:13:00] processes of change, right? There's all these different types of catalysts and like our sun is that change of coming back to our willpower.
Our moon, which when we think about co-regulation, to me our moon sign is really that key that gets us in touch with what we need to nourish ourselves, what we need to create emotional security so that we can co-regulate, so that even when things get uncomfortable, we can still fortify, like you say, and like withstand and like do the big scary thing.
And so sun and moon, they work so brilliantly together
Sarah: Hmm. Yeah. Nice. It's making me curious about what you would say about different ways of accessing that co-regulation depending on your moon sign. That's probably
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: a neat thing to explore, huh?
Leslie Tagorda: Absolutely.
Sarah: Yeah
Leslie Tagorda: I talk a lot about that in, um... Can I share a [00:14:00] little bit about my upcoming book?
Sarah: please. Yes. I thank you for sharing it with me too. I got a little early copy, and it's really, it's gorgeous. It, yeah, there's so much of your beautiful wisdom in there.
Leslie Tagorda: Thank you. Um, and so I have a book c- um, coming up in s- um, it's available for pre-order now. It's coming up on September 8th. I don't have the book in my hands yet. I should be getting it any day this week. Um, so right now a postcard will suffice, suffice. Um, it's called Astrology for Changemakers, and it comes out with Weiser Books on September 8th.
Um, I go through what I call the big four, um, the sun, moon, your rising sign, which isn't a planet, but it's a, it's the sign that was rising on the eastern horizon at the time you were born, and then the descendant, which is the sign that was descending on the western horizon at the time you were born. And it's these four points that we create this system around [00:15:00] our, our internal leadership, our internal power.
And so I go through each of these four points so that you can create this compass of who you are, who you were, how you were born to lead. And your moon sign is one of, like, just such a crucial key in not just your own personal leadership, but again, that way to co-regulate, to come back to yourself.
Because your moon sign, if you know astrology, um, a lot of times it's equated with the inner child, that soft part of you that needs nourishing. But your inner child can totally run the show and, you know, be scared. And when we get scared, we get stuck in places of procrastination or stuck in places of hiding, which doesn't serve us when, you know, like I can just imagine you, Sarah, at the top of like a mountain that the path isn't, you know, created for you, and you're having to navigate all [00:16:00] the twists and turns.
Um, if your inner child is like, "No, that's not safe. Don't go down that path. You don't know what's out there," you would never experience the freedom, the joy, the beauty of that trail, of trailblazing that path down. You'd be stuck at the top of the mountain and, you know, calling for help to go down a safe way instead of, like, doing the thing that you really want.
But if your, your Aries moon, 'cause you have that Aries moon, says, "I'm gonna blaze this trail because that's what creates emotional security within myself. I have to do it this way," right? And when your moon is like, feels secure, knows that you have the skills to navigate all of those twists and turns, and even if you do take a wrong turn, you can easily get back up.
That's your, that's your moon com- operating from a place of emotional security instead of a place of [00:17:00] emotional insecurity. And so that moon sign is, I call it the gatekeeper to our actions. Because again, if the moon is insecure, it's not gonna take action, or it's gonna take action, action based in fear.
But if it is secure because you've been nourishing it and feeding it all the things that it needs, and there's 12 different signs with all of their own different needs, when you've been nourishing your own moon sign, you're unstoppable
Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that, that so well speaks to also how we can be different and need different forms of co-regulation support
Leslie Tagorda: Yes
Sarah: our, for our moon sign or for our nervous system, depending on what lens we're talking, but it all is kind of getting at the same thing, and recognizing that we might need something different than what our friends or coworkers or partners, because we're, we're all different, and that's not a
Leslie Tagorda: All different
Sarah: That's just, just more [00:18:00] information to be collecting, and this is, like, one of the tools you can use to maybe hone in.
Leslie Tagorda: Exactly. And so each of those 12 Moons, they all need something different
Sarah: Yeah. That's very cool. Nice.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: Yeah. Um, the... Let's see. The, one of the ways I had been thinking as I was, prepping for this conversation and thinking again about astrology as co-regulation
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: um, again, goes back to the, this, um, decolonial a- aspect that you bring to this work,
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: you're, you've been my main teacher in, in this.
I know a lot of pe- other people are also,
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: astrology in this way. But the, the point that you make in your book about, um, astrology and before astrology cosmology being, uh, a way that Polynesians were navigating the ocean,
Leslie Tagorda: Yes. Yes, [00:19:00] yes
Sarah: me, that, that comes back to this idea of, like, our body, our, like, actual animal bodies intergenerationally might have, actually probably did need to lean on the stars to be safe.
Leslie Tagorda: Ja.
Sarah: Like, that's,
Leslie Tagorda: Ja.
Sarah: them, like, co-regulating with the stars to get them to where they need to go across the ocean. It's incredible.
Leslie Tagorda: Isn't that beautiful?
Sarah: think that we have that all in our bodies makes so much sense to me
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. Well, you know, the act of colonization, we might know it from, like, land grabs, and it's still happening today, like, in, you know, when we think about land developers taking land, you know, harnessing, like, um, disasters and things. But basically, the act of colonization separates people from place, identity, and culture.
So, you know, in Hawaii, colonization separated the Hawaiian monarchy, separated the Hawaiian people, took their land away, [00:20:00] and, you know, redistributed it for, like for military. Like, Hawaii is a very, very much a militarized zone. People might not know that. But in Hawaii right now, the, um, H- Sarah, have you heard of the Hokule'a before?
Because they've been traveling up to, um, traveling up to Alaska. Okay, so Hokule'a is this ship that they built, and in 1976 they made their first crossing from Hawaii to Tahiti. And this big canoe that they built, an explorer canoe, um, the Hawaiians that built this canoe wanted to prove that the Polynesians could navigate the vast Pacific Ocean without any modern technology.
And the Hokule'a is celebrating this year their 50th anniversary of that maiden voyage from Honolulu to T- to Tahiti. And over the la- it's, it, it, it blows my mind. When my editor, when my editor was [00:21:00] writing the book, she had to fact-check this 'cause she, she couldn't believe it at the beginning. She's like, "What?"
And she was blown away by this story. Um, the, the Polynesians, or, or the crew of the Hokule'a, there were no, in Hawaii, there were no star navigators left. Like, the tradition had totally died out. But there was a man in Micronesia, his name was Pao, um, Mau, sorry, Mau Piailug. Um, I hope I'm pronouncing his name right.
But he had heard what these, the Hawaiians were doing, and in their tradition, you would pass down the star knowledge and the navigational knowledge, um, just to your aunt, like, to your relatives. So there was, like, this living tradition when a child who was gonna become the next navigator, you started training them at three years old by putting them into tide pools so that they would learn the rhythms of the ocean and the tides and the moons.
And their training began at a l- a very long time ago. [00:22:00] But he realized his tradition was dying out, and that if he didn't teach somebody else, this would be lost forever. So in 1976, um, Mau taught the Hawaiians everything that they knew about navigating, and because he lived in the Southern Pacific, he was a little bit worried that they weren't, he wasn't gonna be able to know how to navigate from the Northern Hemisphere because Hawaii is 23 and a half degrees north of the equator.
So he didn't actually know what the star systems, the constellations would look like, right? So he was able to teach them, and so going back to this idea of cosmology, if d- if colonization separates us, and it's even, like, in traditional therapy and psychotherapy, that's colonized too because they separate mind and body
Sarah: Yeah
Leslie Tagorda: But what you do, Sarah, is you connect it back.
So you're in doing this act of [00:23:00] decolonization by reconnecting the body and mind through somatics. And so just like in astrology and astronomy, like the, you know, the, the Western, the Western revolution had separated the spirituality and the meaning, which now we know as astrology, from the scientific facts that we now know as astronomy.
And so long before, you know, the separation happened, even Western astronomers and astrologers were one and the same. Like Johannes Kepler was both astrologer and astronomer. It was astrologers who were writing horoscopes and forecasts for monarchies who were also creating the mathematical tables of planetary motion.
They were the same. Just like the Hawaiian, the Polynesian explorers, they were working with cosmology. They didn't have a written tradition because e- everything in the southern Pacif- in south, in the [00:24:00] tropics just disintegrates. You can't document anything with writing. So it was all oral tradition. And so they baked in science into their mythology so that people could remember the science and the stories.
And so when they were talking about, you know, Maui pulling up the, pulling up the islands, um, if people ever watched, um, Moana,
Sarah: Noana
Leslie Tagorda: right? They, the, the song that Maui sings about how he's pulling up the islands. All that simply means is that when you're traveling, when you're traveling east, the islands will rise above the horizon because of the curvature of the earth, right?
So at that first level of instance, you're just hearing, oh, there's this myth that, like, Maui pulls up the islands with his great fishing hook. But baked into that, woven into that is the science that the Hawaiian, the Polynesians knew the [00:25:00] curvature of the earth, and that as they were going east, that the islands would rise, and as they were going west, the islands would descend into the underworld, and that's where they would call the west the place of the ancestors because the islands would descend.
And so all of this cosmology, science, and mythology were baked in together, not separated
Sarah: Wow. Wow, it really shows the, at least for me, like illuminates all of these layers of colonization that's in- inside our thinking around these things, huh? That, like, they're separate
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: um, yeah, like, astronomy is one thing, but astrology is, like, n- and can't be taken as seriously or, or whatever.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: That's all so colonial and, like, ugh.
Leslie Tagorda: I know. We're changing things now. We're, we're decolonizing. We're bringing things back together.
Sarah: Yeah,
Leslie Tagorda: reconnecting. [00:26:00] Yeah
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. The, you know, the other thing I so appreciate about you and your lens on all of this is that you, you seem to be able to do this all in a really, in a way that is really not fear-based.
Leslie Tagorda: Oh.
Sarah: Yeah, right? Like, I see a lot of other... Or, I mean, I, I, maybe this is, um, just the way our world is right now, but I see a lot of us maybe leaning toward these kind of self-development tools as ways to help us, like, figure out what's wrong with us,
Leslie Tagorda: Yes
Sarah: figure out, like, what, where's the threat and, like, how am I gonna be prepared so
Leslie Tagorda: Ja
Sarah: like, brace myself against whatever problem's coming.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: you seem to be able to navigate this world, but in a really different way.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: you speak to, like, yeah, what,
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: what are you
Leslie Tagorda: That's
Sarah: there?[00:27:00]
Leslie Tagorda: my biggest pet peeve is fear-mongering astrology, or fear-mongering anything, truly. Um, a lot of astrologers who tend to use a lot of fear-mongering, it's clickbait, right? Because they, they, they're wanting to, just like capitalism, they want to profit off uncertainty and off fear. And fear is one, is such a huge driver and motivation, and when you think about who does it behoove for you to live in fear, I mean, it's, it's just, it's a, it's a matter of manipulation and control,
Sarah: Yeah
Leslie Tagorda: And so if we are living in fear all of the time, if we are thinking that we're not good enough, that we're broken and needs to be fixed, that we are, uh, moving from a place of insecurity, well, we go buy the product. We go buy the service. We go listen to this person because we're craving [00:28:00] security. We're craving this idea that everything is going to be laid out perfectly for us without friction.
And I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't wanna live in a life that everything is totally laid out. Like, what happens to pleasant surprises or gifts from the universe, right? Why do we have to have everything so figured out? Why can't we just live in this place of flow? I mean, again, going, I n- I know you from your adventuring, and I don't imagine you go places that you really super enjoy places that you know exactly every nook and cranny, where every, like, beautiful ice shape is.
Like, you're looking for the discovery, for the surprises and brilliance of life. And so if we were, if we're wrapped in fear, um, we wouldn't find those places. And so, um, that fear-mongering, it goes back to that [00:29:00] judgment of, you know, some astrology really, um, plays up this good or bad. Do you have planets that are in detriment and fall, or do you have planets that are in exaltation and, you know, domicile?
Um, really coloring a lot, some astrology really coloring that as good or bad, when there's no such ... To me, there's no such thing as good or bad. There's, there's so much nuance and complexity, and how can we see the gift or the shadow of everything we have in our charts? And so I don't have any space in my heart for fear-mongering.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, well, and that, that piece you just said, um, about there being a gift and a shadow inside of anything feels so much more true to me than there being, like, something that's inherently gonna be very bad or, or even that, even extremely challenging 'cause [00:30:00] it really... All of these situations in life have more...
It, like, seems to me to have so much more to do with how we show up to them,
Leslie Tagorda: Yes
Sarah: like, than, than their inherent, the inherent experience inside of it
Leslie Tagorda: Abs- absolutely, because, um, haven't you seen this too, Sarah, in your life and your clients' lives, that when people move through a really challenging or tricky situation, when they get to the other side, they are left with so many gifts of resilience and lessons that they take with them, and they would have never received those strengths or those lessons or those gifts if they hadn't had that challenge
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and you wrote some about that in your book. I don't know how much you
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: wanna speak to that or not, but, like, a lot of what you're sharing has come from challenges.
Leslie Tagorda: Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel like for, for [00:31:00] me, I have, um, Chiron, the wounded healer, in Aries. And so for me, my, um, my challenge that I come back around and face all the time is, like, the wound of identity, like an identity crisis. And so when I think about identity crisis, it's like the death and the rebirth of yourself in a different way.
It's, uh,
Sarah: Sounds brutal.
Leslie Tagorda: it's
Sarah: Like, yeah,
Leslie Tagorda: And so, you know, sharing growing up as a mixed child, right? Like, my whole childhood was an identity crisis, right? Like, I was too brown in some spaces, too white in some spaces, too fat, not smart enough, all these things, right? So, like, this whole, like, the, my whole childhood was very, very challenging, but I needed that to get to where I am.
When I had my son at a surprise age, that was a whole nother identity crisis because for me, I didn't know if I wanted to be a mom. I didn't know, like, I had lived 41 years, and I'm [00:32:00] like, oh, this is a whole change that's interrupting the path that I thought I was gonna go on. And then most recently, as I was writing this book and going through this, um, through the manuscript and the editing, um, about a year ago I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer, and for anybody who has had a cancer diagnosis, it is life-changing.
And instead of, you know, now that I've gone through all of my protocols and procedures, and at this point so far I'm cancer-free, I, I don't necessarily identify as a cancer survivor per se, but it's truly shaped my outlook on life and my mortality, and kind of made it to a place where, like, I don't have time to bullshit anymore.
I
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Leslie Tagorda: to, like, fake it. Like, I have a certain amount of time on this earth, and I'm gonna maximize every single minute of it[00:33:00]
Sarah: Yeah. Oh gosh,
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: you're doing well after that
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: cancer
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: and, and so impressed. I mean, uh, not trying to like Pollyanna our way through those types of hardships 'cause that's incredibly challenging
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: And, and also kind of like holding in like tooth both sides of it in our hands at the same time, there, there really does seem to be ways to even the hard parts of our charts or our lives
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: in really generative ways
Leslie Tagorda: yeah, absolutely. Like, I, you're a spiritual person, I'm a spiritual person, and so of course, when I first got my thyroid cancer diagnosis, and I, you can see a little bit of a scar here, um, I was like, "How did I get this dis-ease of the throat chakra?" Like, do I not speak up? Am I not advocating? Am I not advocating for myself?
And it was [00:34:00] such this, like, external thing. Like, what am I not doing? What am I not doing? But through the process, and there were a lot of, like, ugly times and, like, ugly crying and, like, you know, coming, coming to myself moments. Um, it wasn't all this, like, beautiful experience. It was very challenging experience.
Um, what I learned about my thyroid cancer, it wasn't really about what I was speaking to others or what I was advocating, it was really truly how was I speaking about myself and to myself. That changed in terms of understanding what my thyroid cancer wanted me to learn at that point, and having to make some real decisions because your capacity drops.
You don't have time for everything, and so I had to make some really challenging decisions in my business in terms of, like, what I needed to, like, what, what I could actually handle capacity-wise. And so I went quiet for a while. I stopped [00:35:00] my teaching. I stopped, you know, doing readings. And, you know, gratefully, my husband was able to support us financially while I was going through this process.
Um, but it also, I made the decision that I was just gonna focus on my book, that this was the most important thing to come out, and it was truly such a healing process for myself to make those boundaries
Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yeah. We, we were talking little bit about perimenopause before we hit record here, and, like, the, that feels like a very similar lesson inside of that process, for
Leslie Tagorda: Ja
Sarah: Like, okay, so limited capacity means we
Leslie Tagorda: Fantastic.
Sarah: prioritize,
Leslie Tagorda: Yes
Sarah: not a bad thing necessarily 'cause we... Like, it's true, we only have, we have limited time on this planet, and limited energy too.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: do with it?
Leslie Tagorda: You know, the funny thing is, like, I've been going through perimenopause, like just in the thick of it, and I- when I was [00:36:00] talking to my, my endocrinologist about this whole, you know, diagnosis and, like, what are the symptoms of, like, thyroid cancer, and she was like, "Oh, thyroid cancer doesn't really have any symptoms."
And I was like, "How is that possible? I feel like shit." Ooh, can I say shit? Um,
Sarah: Oh wait, go for it. Let
Leslie Tagorda: and she's, she's like, "No, that's just perimenopause." I'm like, "What?"
Sarah: No way.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: Wow, that's tricky.
Leslie Tagorda: it was, it was wild. So the only reason why I had, um, got this early diagnosis of the thyroid cancer, um, was I had felt it. Um, about a year ago, my father was in the ICU for, um, for kidney failure, for renal failure, and it was because he wasn't eating, and we were trying to figure out why he was- wasn't eating.
And he was telling the doctors while I was there that he said that, "Oh, you know, sometimes I have this lump in my throat, and it feels uncomfortable." And so naturally, when somebody's talking about a lump in your throat, you, like, feel your throat, and I was like, "Oh, I have a lump in my [00:37:00] throat." Um, and it took a lot of advocating, but an ultrasound led to a biopsy, led to the diagnosis, and I just kept on fighting at every single moment to just, like, get clear on what this was, at the same time being super tired because I, um, had a iron deficiency because I couldn't stop bleeding, and so that was part of, like, a perimenopausal symptom.
I was just exhausted all the time, and then now that I have my thyroid out, uh, this- the weight gain that comes with that, that I've been also navigating. So it's, it's still, it's still quite a health journey even though my diagnosis, I'm cancer-free.
Sarah: Yeah.
Leslie Tagorda: It's wild.
Sarah: sharing that. It's wild. It's wild being a woman,
Leslie Tagorda: Well,
Sarah: being a human, of
Leslie Tagorda: yes.
Sarah: too, but holy cow
Leslie Tagorda: Someone who goes through the, what do they call it? Um, I've heard it called, like, cougerty or, you know, reverse puberty.[00:38:00]
Sarah: I've not heard that.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. I'm like, "Okay, let's, let's just get through this to the other side already."
Sarah: Yeah. Wow. Is there a way that your astrology practice has supported you through all of these, this e- epic health journey?
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. I, I can see the timing of things in terms of, like, when will this journey end? When is it gonna get challenging? I didn't see, I didn't see the cancer coming. That wasn't something that I had seen in the chart. Um, and that's not something that I recommend people go look for in the chart, especially if they have a lot of fear, um, already just innately.
Um, but what I did see was some Saturn transits that were gonna say, like, hey, things are gonna get really hard. Things are gonna get really constricted as Saturn transits happen. Like, I'm sure you're aware of some Saturn transits you have recently been through and will be going [00:39:00] through. Yeah. Um, and Saturn doesn't mean that, like
Saturn, Saturn does mean that, like, hey, we need to tighten our belts. Things are gonna get a little bit uncomfortable. But in the wake of Saturn is maturity, is wisdom, is setting boundaries. It's prioritization. And so we don't need to be scared of a Saturn transit, but whew, I saw that one coming, and I was like, okay, when is this gonna be over?
Sarah: Yeah. Well, I actually really do appreciate that about the way that astrology kind of helps us see things as temporary and as a cycle
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: will eventually have an end. That's like another way it feels like a, a, like a co-regulating s- force for me at least to have the sense of okay, I am going through a thing and, and, and I can ride it out a little easier often knowing that it, it will not likely last forever
Leslie Tagorda: Right, that there's the, the tunnel. You can see the light at the end [00:40:00] of the tunnel.
Sarah: Yeah. Feels really helpful to, to have that little, like l- helps me have some faith sometimes inside of,
Leslie Tagorda: Yes. When is this storm gonna end? Some Doppler radar view
Sarah: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's funny how I think our human minds can get really stuck in feeling like things will last forever, even though we, like nothing, nothing lasts forever, but somehow it, it's hard to believe that when you're r- in the middle of it
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. And when we know that nothing lasts forever, that allows us to, like, live with grace and gratitude for the time that we do have
Sarah: Hmm.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: Yeah. You know, you were talking a little bit about, um, like having to really advocate for yourself and,
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: fight for yourself, and I, I also noticed in your writing you were talking quite a bit about, um, what happens when you stop fighting yourself[00:41:00]
Leslie Tagorda: Yes.
Sarah: to work in more alignment.
That's like k- we might have to actually, like, use our fight, like our fight response
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: world
Leslie Tagorda: Yes
Sarah: done, like to advocate for things that we need, like change in the world or health or whatever.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: like, if we're using that energy to be in fight internally with ourselves and, like, out of alignment, then that's... In some... I mean, honestly, that, like, fires me up 'cause I'm like, "We cannot do that. We
Leslie Tagorda: No
Sarah: that fight well, and it's not internal." So anyways, I'd love to hear you talk about what,
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: meaning with stop fighting yourself and what changes when you get out of that dynamic.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes, yes, yes. So Sarah, you have an Aries sun and a Aries moon and a Cancer rising, right?
Sarah: Yeah
Leslie Tagorda: I remember, and correct me if I'm wrong, if my memory fails me, but I remember when we first started working with each other, you were really not comfortable with all of that Aries [00:42:00] energy
Sarah: Yeah, it, I, my impression of it was that it was really, like, bossy and, like, a lot for people, and maybe a lot for myself too. So I, I did feel a little bit like, uh, I needed to kinda keep, keep it contained,
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. And so that's exactly what I mean when we are fighting ourselves, when we are judging, like, these energies that we were, you know, if you believe in God or the universe, these, like, universe-given gifts of your Aries sun and your Aries moon. And so how do we then reframe that idea of, like, bossy and judgy and, like, too much, right, into this, like, oh, I'm not bossy, I'm assertive.
I know what I want, and I'm gonna go after it, right? I'm not too much. It's, I live a big, full life, and I have to experience life in this bold, grand way. And so how do we f- [00:43:00] reframe these kind of internalized judgments? And l- of course those are, those are not your thoughts. Those are thoughts that come, that you inherited from the system that we lived in, because who does it serve for Sarah, a woman, to be assertive and bold?
It doesn't serve the patriarchy. It doesn't serve capitalism, right? And so
Sarah: Yeah.
Leslie Tagorda: inherited beliefs that we have, first we wanna reframe them, because, like, where did those come from? And then not only do we want to then, like, make peace and stop fighting them, but then we want to reclaim them by actually using
I mean, w- how, how else did you build such a successful business, Sarah, without your ... And, and, like, enjoy all the aspects of your adventuring and your recreation and, um, you know, the co-regulation and, like, building, building the community that you have built if you didn't have that willingness to go big and go [00:44:00] bold?
Right? And so when we reclaim that and say, "I'm not only gonna, like, make peace with this energy, but I'm actually gonna use it in my leadership", that's powerful
Sarah: Yeah. Man, I, I really, I really believe that because it's one of the things you've taught me, and it is something that, that really has stuck with me inside of, yeah, inside of my business efforts, for sure. I think you, well, yeah, this is I, one thing I learned about Aries from you is that idea of being the first and the best like, part of that.
And oh my gosh, that used to make me really cringe. Like, ugh, am I, I'm not allowed to wanna be the first and the best at something. This
Leslie Tagorda: I can just imagine you in like primary school, like just trying to shrink. You're like, "No, no, no." And, but you really wanting to raise your hand
Sarah: Yeah. Oh my gosh, I can, yeah, I feel it throughout my life, that impulse, and then the way I've been try- [00:45:00] I've, like, tried to contain it, and it feels, like, really, like, really something to be able to let that, let that out and let, and just, like, live into it and be like, "This is, is who I wanna be or how I
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. 'Cause I mean, imagine how much energy that takes to contain it, right? Like, there's just, like, all this energy that you could be using to have fun, to enjoy life, to d- to follow your desires, right? Instead, we're focusing it on, like, "Okay, is my hair right? Is my makeup right? Do I look right? Am I, am I too heavy?
Am I too thin? Is, am..." You know, all of that energy that we focus on trying to be somebody that we're not is such wasted energy.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And it's, we're like on a nervous system level, we're using our freeze response. At least I w- feel like that's at least some of what I was doing, using my freeze response to contain a lot of that energy, and then [00:46:00] defaulting to that fawn response to try to like fit in. And
Leslie Tagorda: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: that is, yeah, like you said, a huge demand on the body, and, um, keeps this life force that could, can really take us places
Leslie Tagorda: Right? And,
Sarah: and
Leslie Tagorda: and Aries is a fight response. Its natural response is to fight and say like, "Don't do that. Give me freedom."
Sarah: Yeah. Man, that's been, that's- I've had to do a lot of deconditioning around that too, 'cause yeah, it's like women aren't really allowed to
Leslie Tagorda: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: very celebrated in a lot of ways. And so a lot of subtle messages and, and not so subtle messages in our culture around
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: what to not do with that energy
Leslie Tagorda: Yes. Well, all I know is that my most successful and go-getter, um, business besties, like all my friends who are entrepreneurs and who just like go get it, they got this Aries Moon. I'm not saying that everybody else doesn't have the Aries Moon, but the Aries Moon, my friends who have [00:47:00] that, and I have a lot of them, they just go, and I love that
Sarah: Amazing. that's so fun. Yeah, what do you, um, are there ways we can kinda help generalize that outside of Aries? Like,
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: other, um, what else do you say to people as far as, like, helping them notice where they're fighting themselves and, and move out of that dynamic?
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. Um, do you want me to go through all of the 12 signs? I can kind of, um, I- not kind of, I can go through each of the 12 moon signs and talk about how they can regulate themselves.
Sarah: yes.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: That'd be incredible
Leslie Tagorda: Let's do it. So I cover this in my book too, so, you know, you don't have to memorize this, and I have a post on social media, um, about self-reg- self-regulation and self-soothing for your moon sign because again, um, you know, I talk a lot to entrepreneurs and leaders and, like, how do we self-actualize and become our very best versions of ourselves.
And our moon, again, if we're [00:48:00] not co-regulating, if we're not, if we're not regulating it, if we're not secure in our own emotional needs, like, that's why the moon is so important, so it's our gatekeeper. And so we wanna make sure that we're nourishing our moon sign. So, um, where was I gonna go? Okay, shall we start with Aries?
Sarah: Yes. Yes, we shall.
Leslie Tagorda: Okay, so Aries moon, just like Sarah. And so one of the ways that you can regulate yourself for an Aries moon is using a lot of movement, workouts, competitive or martial arts, um, and also taking care of your head. Like, so head massages, scalp massages, taking care of, you know, every ... Like, you might get a lot of migraines, so, like, taking care of, like, your head space.
Um, for Aries moon, the, the healing question for yourself is who am I to create self-awareness. Does that resonate for you, Sarah?
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I would say the head... I [00:49:00] mean, so much of my work has been learning how to move out of my head into the body, and so I, I expect that is some of what I'm working at there.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes, yes. Um, for our Taurus Moon friends, a way to nourish and regulate yourself is to use weighted blankets, bear hugs, those kind of pressure points, um, anything that's physical or, like, sensational, like soothing scents or, you know, touching, light touches, yummy meals, like eating meals that really satisfy you.
And your healing question for your own self-worth is, can I have? Do you know any Taurus Moon people who that could help?
Sarah: know people who co-regulate in that way, so now I'm curious about their chart.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes. Oh my gosh, you have to look that up
Sarah: connecting with the, with, like, the Earth too, right?
Leslie Tagorda: Oh yeah, like feet in the grass.
Sarah: [00:50:00] Yeah.
Leslie Tagorda: That, that kind of... Yes. Um, gardening would also really work for, um, Virgos too
Sarah: Hmm.
Leslie Tagorda: Um, for the Gemini Moon people, a way to nourish and regulate is to read, journal, do some breathwork because you're an air sign. Also, to co-regulate by socializing with people. So, you know, when people need to talk it out to, like, process, verbally process, that would be for our Gemini Moon folk.
Um, for our Cancer Moon, the, to regulate and nourish yourself, maybe doing home therapy, making sure that your home feels really cozy, maybe even cave-like, um, self-care rituals. Um, also being held. Not so held as, like, a bear hug, but just, like, knowing that a hug is just, like, a perfect way to create some s- s- um, safe space.
And your healing question is, what do I feel, so that you can create some self-care. [00:51:00] For our Leo Moon, fire moons here, uh, regulating for yourself would be to sing, to dance, to laugh, um, maybe watching some comedies or red light therapy or art therapy, creative play. And your healing question is, what lights me up, so that you can create some self-love.
For Virgo Moons, we were talking, it's a earth moon like Taurus. So the Virgo Moon is to regulate, um, anything that does integration, mind, body, spirit. So yoga, even more breathwork, gardening, organizing, mindful eating, and creating daily routines and practices. Your question is, what makes me whole, so that you can do some self-integration.
Libra Moons, they are really here to co-regulate. They need somebody in the room with them. Maybe not just speaking, but just somebody who's going to be with them. Socializing like [00:52:00] that Gemini Moon, beautifying your space, collaborating and sharing. And your healing question is, who am I connected to, so that you can create self-balance.
For Scorpio Moons, another water moon, very intense Scorpio Moon. For you to regulate is requires deep conversations, talking about the taboo things, doing your shadow work, doing spiritual connection, and being in, like, dark, deep stillness to cr- cultivate self-trust. And so your healing question is, what makes me powerful?
For Sagittarius Moons, your regulation is about learning, exploring, getting a new perspective. So, like, you know, climbing to that top of, you know, the highest peak that you can find and, like, just kind of looking over everything. Traveling, um, cultural immersion. So even, like, going to that new, um, Cambodian restaurant and trying their [00:53:00] noodles is, like, a very Sagittarian, um- Peace, like creates, uh, emotional security for yourself.
And Sagittarius asks, why do I believe this? For Capricorn Moons, we have three more. Capricorn Moon, another of the earth moons. To regulate is about building strength and building muscle. So doing, you know, weight training, grounding, creating, you know, your plans of what am I gonna do first, second, and third, and creating your capacity boundaries, knowing that you only have so much time in a day.
And your question is, what is my expertise? For the Aquarius Moon, another air moon, it's about doing nervous system resets, so maybe tapping, maybe energy healing, maybe biannual, bioral beats. Is that how you say it?
Sarah: Mm-hmm. I honestly don't know. Binaural?
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah. Something
Sarah: it's in two, both of your
Leslie Tagorda: the frequencies. Pew, pew, pew, pew.
Sarah: amazing
Leslie Tagorda: acupuncture, community [00:54:00] connection, so being with your friends.
And your question is, which communities do I belong? And lastly, for our Pisces Moon, very sensitive water. To co-reg- to regulate yourself is to use energy, to use music, maybe some water therapy, energy clearing, um, sense, and creative flow. And your question is, how can I be in flow?
Sarah: Wow. Thank you, Leslie. That's so
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: That's really neat. Yeah, I... So, and, and so those 12 kind of guidances are based on your, kind of your birth chart, where was
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: when you're born,
Leslie Tagorda: Mm-hmm
Sarah: the idea that with that imprint, you would be kind of predisposed to these, those types of tools
Leslie Tagorda: Yes. And
Sarah: would be extra responsive maybe to that kind of
Leslie Tagorda: Exactly. And these, these when we think about nourishing, just like how we [00:55:00] all need food and water, these are like needs. These aren't just like luxuries. These are needs that like nourish you
Sarah: Yeah. Okay, so maybe I'm getting even maybe a little astro nerdier now, so this might not be for everyone. But, um, if that's for our birth chart type,
Leslie Tagorda: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: we also have the fact that the moon is moving through these different signs based on every couple days
Leslie Tagorda: Yep
Sarah: a different sign. And so can we also lean on those types of regulation tools depending on where the moon is at in
Leslie Tagorda: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like we have a Leo eclipse coming up. I don't know when this is gonna be released, but that Leo eclipse, we need to enjoy ourselves, sing, dance, celebrate, creative play
Sarah: Yeah. Okay, cool. So it's kind of like each person has their [00:56:00] imprint
Leslie Tagorda: Mm-hmm
Sarah: uh, kind of always there that they need to be nourished by.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: then if you wanna also hone in on, like, where the moon is at, at the, in the moment, that might also clue you into a- another energy or type of strategy you could maybe lean on in the moment
Leslie Tagorda: Absolutely. Especially when we use the moon, like the different lunations, like the new moon and the full moon, that's kind of ... Like, the moon is like our, like our rhythm keeper, right? And so we can attune, we can, you know, plant our seeds with the new moons. We can prune and tend with the full moon, and release with the full moon.
And so it's such a beautiful cosmic timer to intentionally work with the moon and the sign that it's in.
Sarah: Hmm. Nice.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. So I guess that's me a handful of years into studying this and feeling like I have the capacity to, like, attune in that, to that level of things,
Leslie Tagorda: Yes[00:57:00]
Sarah: in at that level, and maybe some people have to build up over time, but that's been... It's fun. I just am always so curious about how to hone in more and more on what supports my body, and
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah
Sarah: clients too, so what a neat way to use this
Leslie Tagorda: Oh,
Sarah: tool
Leslie Tagorda: totally. I have this one client who just created this project. She's, she does a lot of somatics work too. She has, um, different degrees in therapy. She, she's a collector of, of different modalities. She's so wonderful. But she created this, um, a moon deck that allows you to use different somatics based on your moon sign, moon phase, um, and just all, like, pulling in all her somatic therapies, like, her thousands of exercises.
She, like, selected these, like, c- these, these exercises for each of the moons. It's I can't wait till she releases that product
Sarah: Amazing. Nice.
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah.
Sarah: so neat.
Leslie Tagorda: I just love [00:58:00] seeing what people do
Sarah: Yeah, these overlaps are so beautiful and they fit into what we're talking about decolonizing too, just like bringing these worlds back into harmony again
Leslie Tagorda: Yeah, weaving it all together, a beautiful tapestry of you
Sarah: Yeah. Aw. Well, I, um, I wanna, I'm sure you have plenty going
Leslie Tagorda: Oh, yeah.
Sarah: don't wanna take up too much of your time, but I, I would love to hear you talk about your book and what it is you're excited about with this creative project coming out into the world
Leslie Tagorda: Yes. Um, Astrology for Changemakers, um, it's a traditionally published book, and so I have a few, um, self-published books that came out in, like, the 2020, early 2020s. And, um, what's super interesting, and this could be a whole nother subject, but I'm just gonna drop this right now, is that in the traditionally published astrology books, there are
My list as of right now, there are 22, [00:59:00] not 22%, 22 women of color who have been traditionally published in astrology, and that number is wild to me. And so when I just d- I just discovered that number recently, and that brought the impact of what I was doing with this book to such a different level. Um, this book is about your inner leadership and your inner power and how to reclaim and reframe that.
And so, you know, Astrology for Changemakers, I, I wanna give your power back to you. So how do you reframe and reclaim your powers, but also interpret your own chart based on your lived experience to see just the gifts that you have created in your own life? And so, um, to me right now, this is the book that we need in the age of astro- in the age of Aquarius, that we're all born to lead.
And the question isn't how am I born to lead? Um, or the question isn't how do I lead, but how am I born to lead?[01:00:00]
Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and like breaking out of these paradigms of what leadership looks like and it only looking one specific way, white male, cisgender, like so traditional, um, top-down,
Leslie Tagorda: Yes
Sarah: all these things into a very, like we all have different ways of leading, and now's the time, huh? Is that kinda what
Leslie Tagorda: N- now is the time. Yeah.
Sarah: is?
Yeah
Leslie Tagorda: the astrology season of right now is that we're leaning on circular leadership and everybody is here to contribute
Sarah: Wow.
Leslie Tagorda: I think I'm getting a note.
Sarah: gives me chills.
Leslie Tagorda: Yes.
Sarah: Everybody's here to contribute. Okay. Well, now's the time, and Leslie, thank you so much for helping lead the way with this. I know you've brought so much to my life, and I'm just such a fan. Looking forward to seeing [01:01:00] where all this goes, and congratulations on this book
Leslie Tagorda: Thank you, Sarah. Um, I have some pre-order bonuses, so if anybody, you know, orders a book, if you wanna head over to my website, starpowered.com/changemakers, you can get a bunch of pre-order bonuses, which also includes a story from Sarah.
Sarah: Ah, yeah. And, um, we'll link all that up in show notes and stuff too, so people can find their way to you and follow you on Instagram and everything else.
Leslie Tagorda: Perfect. Well, thank you, Sarah, for having me
Sarah: You're welcome. So fun to get this time with you, Leslie. Yay. See you next time Bye
Leslie Tagorda: I think my,
Sarah: Cool
Leslie Tagorda: connection was a little
